Question for you Water Wizards

Jon_10 · August 2006

Good friend of mine had a NYS Health Dept. inspection last thursday at his resturant. Today they are saying the water test shows his e-coli count is too high, and to rectify it they want him to restrict the flow from the pump from 12 gallons/minute to 8 gallons/minute, and increase the clorinator from 0.5 ppm to 1.5 ppm. He asked me how to cut down the flow and I told him to throttle the discharge ball valve on the 80 gallon holding tank. (Water enters the top and exits the bottom, was installed per NYSHD recommandation, clorine is introduced in line before tank, again NYSHD guideline).
Here is the kicker, two water samples (before and after clorinator were taken a week before the Health Dept. showed on Thursday and the water tested OK like usual. Two years ago the Health Dept. said he had e-coli and he sent three samples to a private lab at the same time the Health Dept. took thier samples, his came back showing no e-coli and the Health Dept. samples showed excesssive e-coli so they said. They said unless he got a clorine feeder and a holding tank they were going to shut the resturant down. He spent his hard earned money to applease them and installed the above equipment. Six weeks after he installed the equipment and the Heald Dept. sampled the water and issued his license, a letter arrives from the Health Department main office Test Lab. The latter stated that the five water samples could not be tested because the time between when the samples were taken and when the Health Department Headquarters Test Lab in Albany recieved them was extremely excessive and hence no determination/nor testing on the samples was done. The lab recommended more attention in the prompt mailing of water samples to them be taken and if they wanted the water at the resturant tested to resubmit the samples in a timely manner. The resturant recieved this letter as a copy sent, original letter addressed to regional NYS Health Dept. In other words, the Regional Health Department lied to this guy from day one. This is a prime sample of how New York State treats it's small business people. What recourse does he have, probably none, for they will nitpick him until he closes down. Sad business to say the least...

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1 · August 2006

a bit of info

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/ecoli.html

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Dave DeFord_4 · August 2006

Just a thought..

Contact your local elected representative for the governing body (city council?). There is only one thing that elected officials like more than money and that is votes. You might also call the local television stations - they tend to love to expose corrupt/incompetent officials or city employees. The risk is that if the elected official doesn't do anything and the inspector gets wind of it he/she can cause all kinds of grief.

Mad Dog_2 · August 2006

Is this Long Island?

Mad Dog

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Jon_10 · August 2006

Is this Long Island?

Might as well be, but it isn't. It is St. Lawerence County at the very top of the state. The State Health Department up here has been terrorizing food service establishments for years. Since this area is quite rural, and a lot of places do not have municipal water supply and use wells, the latest kick in the face they have been enforcing is letchfields. They are requiring rural resturants to install new septic systems with a huge letchfields. They must be engineered by a PE and the costs are unreal. A popular resturant in Massena paid just over six figures to install a new NYS Health Department letchfield. They have been in business 60 years and went bankrupt because of payments on the septic system. I can name off at least 15 other rural food establihments who have closed their doors because they could not afford the new septic requirements. I used to do the refrigeration work at all the places and knew the owners well. Sad state of affairs, when you are terrorized by the State of New York.

Unknown · August 2006

did this one job

County health dept cited this homeower for having the septic field illegally "leeching" into nearby creek.. My late father was called to check out the situation and told the dept since that area is in almost swamp area and highly organic ground, etc and will give false readings, etc... Nope, the high and almighty health dept said to find the illegal leeching pipe, so dug up along the creek and edge of property and no pipe to be found, and who's paying the bill and damages to lawn, etc,? Took them 8 years to get a check from the dept...

Mad Dog_2 · August 2006

Very scary.........................................

The restuaurant owners need to band together and get a politician behind them...ASAP! Keep us posted Mad Dog

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Robert O'Connor_12 · August 2006

redundancy

Being a "city slicker" and all, and not being overly familiar with wells, I would try to "be on guard", by that I mean, can't the owner hire a third party independent testing agency, and have the water tested more frequently. I've have many water samples tested and it wasn't alot of money.

I'd rather be "ready" for em, armed with the info....no?

Just a thought.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Jon_10 · August 2006

redundancy

In the first instance, two water samples were taken 4 times over 4 days. Owner drove his each day to the test lab within 30 minutes of sampling, none had any e-coli even near the limits set by the NYS Health drpartment. The health department said the samples they had tested showed e-coli above the limits. Owner was PO for he had to spent $1100 for the chlorine injecter and tank. Several weeks later recieves a letter from the NYS Health Department test lab stating that the samples sent were too old and would not be tested. Local Heath department remarks were that he should have a chlorine system regardless of any testing even tho the water samples sent to thier lab were never tested. In other words if you want a license to operate and have a well, you will have a chlorine system. And if you butt heads with them, they feed the newspaper a list of petty violations (always corrected on the spot, like towels boxes stacked on wood non covered shelving, dish clothes on counter, not in bucket etc, etc.) and the max fine of $30,000 could be levied, but never is. Everyone else sees it in the Daily Rag, and the business goes under for lack of customers because the owner questioned the NYS Health Department's inspector's IQ. Something wrong here.

Constantin · August 2006

They got a check?

Wow!

Maybe I should get in line at the local city hall to get paid for all the time that was wasted getting my fire sprinkler system approved? What about the fire line I had to install even though code does not call for it?

I remain amazed that they paid for the work. I wish more government agencies, and their agents in particular, were accountable like that.

Constantin · August 2006

Easy now...

That the Health Department can be a racket is nothing new. A good friend of mine with a restaurant in NYC was shaken down regularly by inspectors keen on handouts, freebies, and other things.

Who wants to be the sacrificial lamb to stop these practices, yet most likely lose their business along the way? Fighting that department may eventually get one bad inspector ejected, but the real problem is that there are plenty more bad inspectors waiting in line to fill those shoes.

In other words, you have to be able to change the top of the organization and stamp out corruption each step down. Only politicians can do that, so that's where I would try to apply leverage. Presumably, other business owners have the same issues, so make the elected officals work for you, squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all that.

Lastly, this has nothing to do with Nazis and I would refrain from using such terms so flippantly. It detracts from your arguments and is offensive to those that lost relatives in that conflict.

Question for you Water Wizards

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