New technologies (Dan H.)

The low temps with very high output of the Raupanel has taken efficiency to a new level. Add a Vitodens or something that thrives on very low water temp and thats exciting!

I am with the others on the Vitodens

Definitely see a "Top Ten" list coming out of this, but limiting it to ten may be hard in the end.

Vitodens as a means unto itself; ModCons in general.

PEX and PEX-AL-PEX with growing applications; material options to copper and other hot commodities.

Tekmar and other controls. Incredible smarts at the retail level.

Variable pumping especially with analog inputs from specific control variables.

Data Loggers. Knowing what you otherwise may not.

Radiant anything.

I could go on.

It's all about options...

...to me, what is exciting about todays industry is the sheer scope of products that are available worldwide to address heating and/or cooling needs. Many of them are not going to be available in the US anytime soon though, unfortunately.

Gas-fired mod-con boilers have been proven for 20+ years. The Vitodens is at the pinnacle... there is no good reason not to use such boilers in homes that have the right emitters and occupancy loads with todays gas prices.

On the oil side, condensing boilers have been a marginal business in the US, and to a lesser extent abroad. Modulating oil burner technology and low-sulfur fuel will finally make mod-con, low-mass oil boilers a possibility in the US. The technology has been developed, now all we need is a importer or US firm to make it a reality.

Another revolution are the software suites of tools that have turned PCs into great helpers... from calculating the heat loss to laying out the tubing patterns, the myriad of available products allow installers to become more efficient and more certain that their installations will meet all customer expectations. One still has to understand the basics, but planning ahead is usually more efficient than making it up as you go along later.

Even better are the emerging means to get people educated effectively, no matter where they live. Broadband connections, effective, content-filled web-sites, etc. allow more professionals to remain on the cutting edge on their own pace. Just think of how much time it saves to be able to download a missing manual, join a web-chat like the Wall, etc. All these time-savers add up to a serious advantage when it comes to diagnosing and treating a problem, even if you haven't encountered it before.

More importantly, sites like the Wall are creating a venue for homeowners to educate themselves, distinguish true professionals from hacks, etc. More homeowners than ever before resort to the Web to educate themselves, which is only to the benefit of those that know how to harness that education to further their business.

On the balance-of-plant side, I believe that pumps like the Grundfos Alpha Pro series will point towards a much more energy-efficient future. Better still, the Δ-P technology opens up a whole new toolbox for installers to take advantage of. Wilo and Laing, among others, also challenge the industry to do better.

Relatively inexpensive temperature control systems like the 3-way iSeries valves from Taco have also caught my eye. Using these valves, you can add all sorts of emitters to existing heating systems, and have them on an OR-curve also!

Lastly, the geeks among us are enjoying new ways to efficienty monitor (and perhaps control) homes than ever before. I think that the WEL system put out by Phil Malone combines ease-of-use with a flexible interface and a suite of sensors that can be used to effectively monitor what the house is doing.

But the trend that seems to stand out is that the US boiler industry has finally woken up and is working harder on bringing out energy-efficient boilers instead of largely focusing on lowest-initial-price boilers. Last year, there was a rush of mod-con boilers entering the US market, most of them private-label imports from the EU. This is a good thing for US consumers and US installers alike. The more choice, the better for all.

Old concepts new systems

I am thinking the ground osurce heat pump coupled with radiant, or a geothermal/modcon hybrid or even better a geothermal/solar hydrid. Possibilities are endsless anre the efficiencies are untouchable up to 400% efficiency.
Yes, the Vitodens is the best in cutting edge tech, variable speed pumps and the comfortol. The bottom line too with the Vitodens is the simplicity of the entire system. All the technology is in the box, which is the proven product. This summer I have 5 project on the books with Vitodens boilers with Warmboard radiant, using Oventrope TRV modulating flow controls and a single tank Vitosol solar DHW system. THe ulimate system/ true constant circ. Simple using the the Viessmann products. They are built to last.
How about the Warmboard product. I do not think there is a better radiant product on the market for new constuction. It solves all the problems with flooring and is ultra efficient. It simplfies the whole project.

Education from Viessmann is a top notch technology. With education there would be no technology
Jeffrey

TRVs for the Warmboard™ floors? (Danfoss calls them FHVs for "floor heat valves", but I know that Oventrope also makes them.)

If so, please report back with results! I've been wanting to hear about such a system for years!

Built-in provisions for adjusting the draft inducer to the flue system. Vitodens might be the only one that does this continually and completely automatically.

Seperate Career

I like Josh's idea about hydronics being a separate career. As a wholesaler I am very excited about new Hydronic products that come to market. I do find that in my area it can be hard to sell these new products. The best way is to provide training to our contractors with the help of our manufacturers and their representatives. Most of my area mfg reps recognize this and are putting a large emphasis on training. I can understand Josh's frustration on not being able to get newer products. Unfortunately as a wholesaler you have to control your inventory $. One customer might prefer a Buderus mixing station while another might like the Wirsbo Pro Series Controls. It can be difficult to stock all of them. I really like the TN4 Tekmar but it will take a tremendous effort to market, train and sell it. Fortunately, most of the time it is worth the effort. Just my 2 cents.
Don

I like

the concept behind Radiant Cooling.
bet we see more installs and controls specific to radiant cooling,and training
from the likes of Uponor (mini camp IV ?)
I second geo/radiant systems will have a bigger role in years to come.
And can't wait till web based controls and integration becomes main stream.

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Wow, the John White juinior? John I am located an hour north of Seattle, WA.

I'm with Josh.................................................

The average outfits are JUST NOW attending the basic radiant seminars et cetera and the next day proclaiming themselves "Radiant Experts"...its laughable. We are very excited about the solar integration that is becoming an easier and easier sell. Indeed Dan, it is a VERY exciting time to be in the industry....IF and ONLY if one has half a brain and a scintilla of ambition. The wholesalers and Reps are a real mixed bag. Mad Dog

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new technology

I think the Radiant industry as a whole is becoming more exciting every year. With the ever-rising fuel costs, I believe that the American way of expensive kitchens, flooring and landscaping will soon start to shift to efficient heating systems. Add a high efficient boiler, solar for domestic or geo-thermal heating/cooling and install average countertops, and carpet!! Marc

at the risk of sounding ingratiating, I'll say...

the internet and resources like The Wall. Why, from a HO perspective:

1) education education education. I used to care and know nothing more about my heating system than it kept me warm. Now I know a ton more, have availed myself of The Wall to figure out a recent simple problem that a host of locals couldn't solve, and have gotten way educated on how the major mechanical system in my house can be hugely improved for comfort and efficiency. The latter being particularly important in these days of rapidly increasing energy costs. Now the issue becomes finding a good professional....

2) Sorting out the wheat from the chaff. I now realize that the guy who did our boiler swap 3 years ago was only barely competent to do the job. Did real nice pipe work (neat and square, gorgeous sweat joints), but sized, piped, pumped, zoned and vented my system pretty much totally wrong. TWICE. At huge expense.... The recent parade of professionals (and even a supply house design guy -- that was scary) who failed to identify a very simple pumping away issue was astounding. I have since turned to The Wall to find a local pro. I have used my education and reading on The Wall and elsewhere to prepare myself for our conversations about fixing up this system, and am looking forward to working with a bona fide expert who knows what he's doing.

3) THE INTERNET AND THE WALL CAN ONLY HELP YOU GUYS. We HOs are slowly but surely getting educated. All this neat new equipment and controls you're talking about we can now find on-line and read about. So what you are selling to us we can further research at manufacturer sites and forums like The Wall. I think manufacturers are doing an excellent job putting everything on-line. The Taco and tekmar sites in particular are a treasure trove of simple to technical information on the equipment that goes into my house. THIS HELPS YOU SELL ME. Example: I have basically committed the tekmar 260 application and data brochures to memory, and forum research suggests tekmar stuff rocks. My local pro only needed to spend about two seconds on describing it and what it does, so we could move on to other topics that were important in scoping the job. I knew he was selling me an excellent control, appropriate for the job, and he would install it properly. Next item!

4) Just seeing a group of professionals like you guys having rational debates, conversations, education sessions, whatever you want to call it here on The Wall reinforces my faith that there are good people out there who do quality work, stay educated, think about their customers, and think long-term. The value this has to me as a consumer is hard to overstate.

So as lovely as that Vitodens is, I think for overall impact, from a HO perspective, the internet and forums like The Wall have totally changed your industry.

Good point. You know what I find most interesting? If a HO walks into a sheet metal supply house and asks to buy a furnace they will be turned away because furnace manufacturers require factory training. If that HO asks to buy a Visseman boiler the supplier will gladly sell to the HO and give them a free heat loss and design whil they are at it. Why is that? I have done both radiant and forced air and trust me radiant is way more complicated.

I recently stopped using a wholesaler for selling a HO a Weil-McLain Ultra. Not because they sold it to the HO but because they sold it to the HO for only $20 more than I pay. I am really upset about this trend and I could vent about it for hours. I think as contractors we need to fight this issue.

I also think the manufacturers should step up to the plate and require contractors to become dealers, and require factory training. No HO ought to be able to purchase a boiler.

differing temps

Why not zone and let the thermostats do the distribution?

Low temp

The thermostat is the best indicator of comfort. If you control boiler output from the thermostat, you have ideal comfort and efficiency.

It's different everywhere Josh

The loco wholesaler (not a typo) sells anything and everything to anyone who is able to walk, speak and has money. Furnaces, boilers, heating repair parts, gas valves, ignitors, power venters, you name it. I have to deal with them on some basic stuff because they are the only wholesale place within 70 miles of me. I order most of the stuff I use from wholesalers that are over 100 miles away because they sell trade only or will give a decent percentage of price protection to me.

Given that the quality of service from the local supply house is so marginal, I guess I'm biased in that I don't see a lot of use for a wholesaler in the first place. I'd like to see manufacturers establish a central warehousing system and just let contrators order directly from it. UPS and FedEx warehouse all kinds of stuff from computers to clothes. The manufacturers have nothing to do with taking orders or shipping and it works great. The IT businesses have embraced this model and it has proven to be very efficient at moving product.

I've ranted about this before..........

Take your issues with getting TACO products for example. Mr White would love to sell you his products but you find them hard to get because the outfit that is supposedly stocking the product, flat out isn't doing its job. Why on earth can't you call TACO, or their "fullfilment center" and order what you need directly from them, give them a credit card number and have 'em ship it? You know what you want, they have it but the weak link is in the middle. All the "wholesaler" is doing is creating a delay for you and costing you and TACO each 10%. Direct to consumer selling happens about everywhere except the P&H industry and I don't understand why.

circulation and low delta

Then you have found home. we do old gravity systems in mansions, one 60% circulator, and the temps are even and the delta is 20-30 degrees tops.

If you have the radiators putting out warm temps the rooms stabilize after a few hours. The temperature on the return water rises as the return water is not sitting in the pipes to cool off very long. As for mixing different temp returns from zones, the difference is very insignificant when using low temps. The thermostats in zones are a comfort buffer between system temperatures and radiation for comfort. If the house was built by something above morron the piping will be consistent, and the heat loss will be fairly consistent. So you only problem is length of run. This is the benefit of being able to zone the cold areas, the warm areas, the long runs and the short runs. With moderate water temps and thermostat choice, you limit overshoot (more efficient) in the warmer zones and achieve efficient comfort in the chilly zones. Any one who challenges proper zoning for efficiency and comfort is misled. Add exquisite adjustment of boiler temps for that system from a mid zone thermostat and you have maximum efficiency

heating

We are heating the indoors. Outdoor reset curve is a guess AND can be set wrong. Trial and error under so many differing conditions? it's a rube. We have computers now. Computers can take information from the thermostat. Oh, I forgot the untimate option. Let's put the thermostat outside. Then you don't need any curves at all.