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Raypak

ALH_4
ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
Have removed a few. They tend to plug up and destroy themselves after a few years, melting the controls and spilling flue gas. The heat exchanger header gaskets tend to leak after a few years too. I'm not a big fan, but I'm not a big fan of copper fin-tube boilers in general. Cast iron is far better, and the only drawback is the weight.

Comments

  • John McArthur_2
    John McArthur_2 Member Posts: 157


    Has anyone used the Raypak residential boilers? Local supply house is planning to stock them and curious as to opinions.

    Just looking at these as alternate copper fin-tube boiler.

    Thanks
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    Have had excellent experience with them.....

    My first experience was with one that was installed incorrectly and melted down the heat exchanger and gaskets after 7 years. The system was zoned through the boiler and was not getting proper flow. The boiler was rebuilt by another contractor and I was later asked to repipe it. Its now been nine years and it is working wonderfully. The mechanical mode controls allowed about 8 to 1 downturn with the very well designed tapered burners. I have alos seen several others covered with an inch of dust in domestic water heating aplications and are still cranking along. I have found that most problems with copper tube boilers are installation problems, and not the boiler itself. There are always exceptions and some designs are much more flexible than others. I consider the Raypacks to be a preferred design. they seem to know the limits of the design and know how to properly deal with it. Problems like plugging up are usually due to low operating temperatures causing inadequate draft our fouled combustion air. Most of these boilers fire at quite high efficienccies, 82 to 84% on atomosheric draft hood models so there is not much room for error in installation. Cast iron units tend to run in the 78 to 82 % range from my testing experience.

    Boilerpro

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  • John McArthur_2
    John McArthur_2 Member Posts: 157


    Thanks for the replies. I am also a fan of CI boilers for their simplicity. We use copper fin-tube boilers in specific applications and have been using Laars but my supplier is looking at Raypak instead.

    We use a pretty good mix of boiler types, depending on the job.
  • Bob Sweet
    Bob Sweet Member Posts: 540
    Boilerpro

    Has it all covered from my perspective, I've seen the same combustion numbers as well 82% to 84%.

    Most of the Raypaks I see (which are quite a few in my area) Are NOT piped per mahuf. specs no pri/sec piping, relying on the boiler pump to do the system as well. The familiar moan from the HX usually follows, as well as a dusting of the vent deterioration resting on the top of the boiler.

    If piped per spec, they are a good copper tube boiler.

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  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    For the record

    Every Raypak I have seen destroy itself was piped p/s per manufacturer's recommendations. I guess they did last somewhere around 10 years or more on average. I'm just saying I would never use a copper fin tube boiler. A cast iron boiler will do the same job better for comparable money.
  • John McArthur_2
    John McArthur_2 Member Posts: 157


    Thanks guys. I'm always a bit skeptical about using an unfamiliar product. Seems that the Raypak is a good copper-tube boiler. I like the efficiency information.

    We are installing a lot of mod/cons now but we still have a home for atmospherics. Although, I'm scared of the alum HX. I plan on sticking to SS.
  • Ross_7
    Ross_7 Member Posts: 577
    Raypak

    I've had good luck with the basic atmospheric draft Raytherm 2-stage commercial units, dial-in with very little trouble. However, the ADB-750 sealed combustion units were a real pain in the butt. Very touchy. I do like the two stage firing set-up. Very basic, repairable with off the shelf parts, more or less. I have not however, used any of the residentials.
    Ross
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    I was wondering......

    What return temps those boilers were running with? Copper Tube boilers do not tolerate low return temps. This is related to thier high combustion efficiency. Most run very tight on air, with excess air levels from 15 to 30% typical, while newer cast iron units tend to run in the 50 to 60% range. Low excess air means they are much more likely to condense on the heat exchanger, expecially right where the return enters the boiler. Return temps below about 150F are beginning to push the limits in my experience. Condensing causes corrosion on the heat exchanger which plugs them up, throws off the combustion process and then they plug up with soot, if they hadn't already plugged up with detriorated copper. Next time you come across a plugged up copper tube, I'd look closely at thier return temperature....P/S piping usually does not address this issue, and if it does only poorly.

    Boilerpro

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  • Troy_3
    Troy_3 Member Posts: 479
    Raypak

    We used to use Raypak before Munchkins. I am amazed how much happier the customers are that we have pulled out the raypak and replaced with Munchkin. We yanked a 780mbh snowmelt raypak and installed 2-399 munchkins. The homeowner claims when figuring in snow load, degree days and usage he saved in excess of 50%. I won't argue with him. I cringe every time I get a call about copper fin boilers. The biggest problem we have seen is a little circuit board and temp probe that are crazy expensive. I love to see them come out. I'm sorry I ever put them in.
  • John McArthur_2
    John McArthur_2 Member Posts: 157


    Boilerpro,

    That's a very interesting point about the low return temps. I have always been told that because of the flexible nature of copper tube design they are better suited to low return temps. I, fortunately, have not had any plugged HX's on the Laars boilers I already have installed.

    I'll check return temps on future boiler service checks.
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    As I understand, a very common misconception...

    Copper Tube boilers can deal with thermal shock better, but low continuous temps seem to cause real problems. This is something about the newer mod/cons which is almost never talked about. Yes they can deal with low temps on a continuous basis, but how well do they deal with rapid temp changes. I am pretty sure that some designs deal much better with thermal shock than others.

    Boilerpro

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  • John McArthur_2
    John McArthur_2 Member Posts: 157


    Do you think steel and CI boilers will suffer similar degradation?

    I looked at two snow melt boiler a week or so ago that were piped direct to the slab. One was an Allied steel tube and one was a Laars JVH copper tube. I advised the owner's rep that the installations were inadequate. But what the heck, they've work this long, right? :( (Tongue in cheek)

    I have seen the effects of sustained flue gas condensation but this sounds like a different situation.
This discussion has been closed.