Dirty Boiler - Still Prming HELP!

Steve Garson_2

Oil floats on water. You will never remove the oil unless you use the skim tapping at the top of the boiler.

John Van Hoesen

Where is the oil coming from?

Hi all -

I just finished "cleaning" the boiler... I replaced the boiler block this summer and after running for a few days noticed a funny smell and also noticed the water in the sight glass was priming. Nothing major, it's not kicking the LWCO on/off, but there are bubbles and a little water migrating up the glass column.

SO... I skimmed the boiler (following directions to a T). When I hit the LWCO the first 15 seconds was STILL dark brown/black. So I used TSP(again following instructions to a T). Same thing. The boiler is a Burnham V86, so it's not very big (only ~19 gallons of water)and I only replaced 2 feet of black iron pipe in the whole system. And yet I still have oil coming out of the system (both in the smell and the LWCO) and I still have some priming. There is very little 'sludge' coming out of the boiler, it's just a light gray now, not rusty color anything.

Anyone have any other thoughts? Is it normal to have to clean it this much for that size boiler? Do I hit it with another round of TSP? I also have a bottle of Dry Steam #3, should I try that? I don't want to just add a bunch of crap to the boiler to try and fix it, but I'm really frustrated because I spent 6-7 hours yesterday skimming and cleaning... to no avail.

Thanks for your input!!!!

cheers
John

[Deleted User]

I hear your frustrations...

I typically include 8 man hours time for cleaning a system and boiler. Sometimes, it gets stretched to 16 man hours, and I don't get compensated for the other 8 hours.

Persistance is a requirement when cleaning an older system. THe benefits well outweigh the time involved.

Sometimes it is necessary to "flood" the upper parts of the system to break loose the crap and get it back to the vessel. Some times this has to be done numerous times with strong concentrations of TSP (if allowed) to get the job done.

I'd avoid introducing other unnecessary chemicals into the system and the environment.

Hang in there.

ME

John Van Hoesen

Not Old...

Hi Mark -

Thanks for the comment, if it was an old boiler I would understand a little more, but the boiler itself is new, the pipes are all old... could the oil be coming out of the old pipes? Maybe it isn't even oil... I don't know. I guess I'll try another round of skimming without TSP... 16 hours! Whoa.

cheers
John

John Van Hoesen

Pics...

Another round, thought I'd take pics of the water... maybe that will tell you something that I'm not seeing.

J~

[Deleted User]

Do you have an actual skim tapping...

or are you skimming through the LWCO?

We always set our systems up with an actual skim tapping and plug it off when we're done.

ME

Dan Goodridge

boiler skimming

I usually don't get involved in the HO vs. pro debate but this post really makes me wonder. " SO... I skimmed the boiler (following directions to a T)" If you really read the directions you would have known to use the skim tapping. Oil floats on water, right?
Try not to hurt yourself. If I was you, I'd forget about posting on heatinghelp and call a pro for some help.

John Van Hoesen

I am...

I'm using the skim tapping off the back... I was just illustrating that no matter where the water comes from, it's oily... I have an 1 1/2" nipple out the back, a gate valve and a 90d elbow pointed down that I'm filling 5 gallon buckets with. Thanks though...

John

Unknown

Patience

is a virtue - for cleaning a steam boiler . We were on a job that took 8 hours of flushing to get the return water to come out clean . Was the system ever cleaned before you changed the boiler ? Do you have a shutoff valve on the return and a drain to clean the returns without the dirty condensate going back into the boiler ?

Robert O'Connor_12

John

You need to be patient when skimming. I'm not a real Burnham guy but I have installed more than enough of them (or any brand), it just takes time.

Refer to page 55 of your manual, these should be all the useful tips needed. I would not attempt to skim through the LWCO or the relief valve. If memory serves me, doesn't the relief valve get installed in the skim tapping?? You need to remove the valve TEMPORARILY to acomplish your task. another problem I often see with dirty systems is not installing a valve between the hartford loop & return and install a drain in the return, for this is the only way to flush it correctly. Be careful, be patient, be safe

Happy skimming!

Robert O'Connor/NJ

John Van Hoesen

I did...

I am skimming through the skim tapping (or in Burnham's language, the Surface Blowoff Connection. I did follow the instructions... on page 49 of my V8 Installation, Operating and Service instruction manual it states: "Run temporary 1 1/2" NPT pipe line from the surface blow-off connection to an open drain or some other location where hot water can be discharged safely." So that's the tapping that I used, I just didn't show it in my original post, I was merely trying to illustrate that I originally discovered it when I purged the LWCO. I've attached a picture showing the surface blow-off connection, which isn't near the pressure relief valve. Note the plug for safety as suggested by Glenn from Burnham.

All I was really asking was is it normal for the water to be "this" dirty after a fresh install, because it seems awfully dirty and I thought after skimming through the boiler 2 times that it should be good, but still have some crap in there... sorry to confuse or offend anyone.

J~

John Van Hoesen

Unfortunately no...

I don't Ron.... I didn't do the original piping, just replaced the boiler... should have put in more valves, but I was really nervous about just making sure it worked. Next summer I'll but a few more valves in. You think some of the TSP is cleaning out the rest of the pipes and it's just draining back into the boiler? That would make sense I guess... I'm just going to keep skimming and skimming until it's clean. Thanks for the comments Ron and not assuming I was skimming out the LWCO.

cheers
John

[Deleted User]

The reason for my incorrect assumption...

is because the photo you show is of a 5 gallon bucket full of dirty water directly below a low water cut out device...

Just trying to make sure you're going about it right, not trying to belittle or berate you.

Carry on, patiently.

ME

tim smith

priming and skimming & skimming & skimmmming

> I am skimming through the skim tapping (or in

> Burnham's language, the Surface Blowoff

> Connection. I did follow the instructions... on

> page 49 of my V8 Installation, Operating and

> Service instruction manual it states: "Run

> temporary 1 1/2" NPT pipe line from the surface

> blow-off connection to an open drain or some

> other location where hot water can be discharged

> safely." So that's the tapping that I used, I

> just didn't show it in my original post, I was

> merely trying to illustrate that I originally

> discovered it when I purged the LWCO. I've

> attached a picture showing the surface blow-off

> connection, which isn't near the pressure relief

> valve. Note the plug for safety as suggested by

> Glenn from Burnham.

>

> All I was really

> asking was is it normal for the water to be

> "this" dirty after a fresh install, because it

> seems awfully dirty and I thought after skimming

> through the boiler 2 times that it should be

> good, but still have some crap in there... sorry

> to confuse or offend anyone.

>

> J~

tim smith

priming and skimming & skimming & skimmmming

We just finished a job that we went back on a few times and probably had more than 10 or 12 hrs of skimming and flushing. Finally got it. I was talking to a well known factor guy who made a great suggestion, install a tee at the back side of header right before it goes down to the equalizer. Heat up boiler and then rise water and skim off this, this gets all the boiler and near boiler piping. I thought it was a great suggestion. good luck, Tim

Dan Goodridge

Sorry John-- my bad-- shouldn't have assumed you were using lwco

Dan Goodridge

John Van Hoesen

No Worries!

It was totally understandable, I just wanted to make sure others didn't think I was an idiot. I don't want the rep of asking bad questions... trying to do my best to tune up the system and get it running, VERY few steam people in the area and I like to do my own work anyway.

Thanks!!
J~

Unknown

This is a valve

you need to cut in if you want to cut down on the cleaning time . What's happening is the cleaner works it's magic - sudsing the system up and down , and all the dirty crud breaks loose . The inevitable end of the journey is the boiler block - unless you have a way to stop and drain the return of the spooge before it hits the block . We installed a V84 today and had a clean boiler in 1.5 hours by purging the filthy condensate . I know your system might be alot more filthy , but the purge really cuts the time down .

t. tekushan

I'm a little late on this subject

But I see a situation similar to one I encounterd at a building where I babysat the boilers.

I had notified the landlord that all of the black pipe fittings in the near boiler piping were leaking and rusting. Apparently the installation from 10 years before was not holding up very well.

Over the summer all of the near boiler piping was replaced and the system was fired to look for any other leaks. All that cutting oil wound up surging everywhere through the old piping, it seems. The oils released any crud that was not securely attached and occluded itself pretty effectively throughout the return system.

I get back there and skimmed skimmed fired skimmed fired skimmed to the point of insanity. People were calling for heat; I (the boiler, that is) was delivering rude noises!

I piped the surface blowoff with a ball valve and piped it to the floor. Fortunately I was working in an old fashioned large dingey boiler room. I filled the boiler to its normal operating water level. I opened the blowoff valve and fired the boiler. I let the darn thing boil with the blow off blasting towards the drain, shutting down the fire if things got too vigorous.

Miraculously, about 30 minutes of this steamy, balmy process resulted in a sight glass that was bouncing about an inch. Tolerable. The next few days I blasted it once a day (just for a minute or so). Success!

-Terry

John Van Hoesen

Thanks Terry

I'm just plugging away... still dirty and crappy though. But I feel better knowing it's "sort" of common to have all this crap coming out of the system after a 'change.' I think I've probably run about 160 gallons through the boiler and still crappy. Only the one TSP treatment, I'll just keep skimming once a day though. ha ha...

thanks
J~