oil flame

BigRed

how would Ishorten it?

BigRed

sould the flame from an oil gun touch

the back wall of the boiler?

Steamhead (in transit)

No

that will chill the flame and can lead to sooting.

Al Gregory

increase pump presure. How much of it is hitting the bak wall. Is it blowing right against it or just barly touching it

Ron Schroeder

What do you have for a boiler??

steamhead is used to looking in those long steam chambers. If you have W/M 268/368 series or other short boiler it might.

BigRed

ITs a V9-04

and it curls up the back section about 4". how do I increase pump pressure. The burner is a Beckett I dont know the type.

Ron Schroeder

Has an effecency test been done??

You need some one with gauges and combustion test kit to reset pressures and check operation.

Robert O'Connor

Ok

You need manometer to set the pressure properly at the breech . I forget what it calls for but that boiler requires pressure in the firebox and you set it with the damper at the breech. You will neep , a combustion analyzer wet or electronic, pump pressure guage and a manual. if you don't have a manual call Burnham.

Probably ought to let a pro handle this.

All the best

Robert

ME

Jim Davis_3

Could also be nozzle problem

Just had a contractor call and was having similar problem on another boiler. Even though the burner called for a 45 degree nozzle when it was switched to a 70 degree everything cleaned right up, no flame touching and the combustion was great!

Frank M Alleva

I strongly urge you to invest the money in hiring a professional to evaluate the problem and re-adjust the burner using combustion instrumentation. This is not for the inexperienced to tackle.

BC

I've got the same problem

My boiler is an old Weil-McClain 572 steamer that has been downfired from a rated 2.75gph to 1.4. Someone retrofitted a smaller combustion chamber when they downfired it, and the flame "climbs" the back wall about 5-6" as you describe. The nozzle is a 1.25 80deg hollow set at 125psi, and I don't really want to downfire it much more since the stack temp is about 400deg and I've heard that is about the limit to avoid condensation.

It is running about 80% efficiency now because of the low stack temp, but it is only at about 8% CO2, and that seems to be the limit for smoke.

I was thinking of trying a smaller nozzle at a higher pressure (keeping about the same firing rate), or changing the burner head from a F12 to an F6 since right now it is on the low end of the range for an F12. Any idea if this might help make a more compact flame? Or I may just wait until next year when hopefully I'll be in a position to have the whole thing replaced with a much, much smaller boiler (100kbtu would be plenty for my radiation load).

adayton_2

572 Weil McLain downfired to 1.4 ?????

BC,

Got one of those puppies over here too, Baldwin Town, Long Island, New York.

Called W/M and they said only downfire by 10% to 20% MAX.. This has been running with 2.0 which is

already too far under (have a 2.25 was gonna replace it with). How is yours even working at all at

1.4GPH?

Alfred

BigRed

burner tuning

I am a professional but I dont have much experience with oil and oil burners. One of my coworkers hadles the set up on oil fired equipment and he has done so here as well. I questioned him about the flame on the back section and he thought it should lick the back, he looked again and thought it was fine. I dont often install oil equipment so I dont work on it alot there the lack of knowledge about the pump pressure. I dont think the flame is fine and I can see the soot building up on the back of the boiler and its been runnign about 1 mounth . This is 1 of three in the same room the other two are still being built

adayton_2

How about touching sides (or NOT) 572 W/M

Got one of those puppies over here too, Baldwin Town, Long Island, New York.

Called W/M and they said only downfire by 10% to 20% MAX.. This has been running with 2.0 which is

already too far under (have a 2.25 was gonna replace it with). How is yours even working at all at

1.4GPH?

Also mine is only barely touching (hardly at all) the back
of the chamber BUT it does not come any where near the sides (about 5 to 8 inches away from both sides).
Does this matter?

Alfred

Ron Schroeder

JE

you really need somewone with a combustion analyzer to set up a mordern burner, the flame pattern today is not like it was 20 years ago, and the only way to tell is by setting it up by the specs with the proper equipment.

BigRed

Bruce

We have a testo 325 and i was there and helped tune the burner my coworker said then that the oil pressure could not be adjusted. I dont have the print out it is on the boiler but I will get and post Im just trying to check his work.

BC

I know it sounds wrong

I was surprised at how much downfiring it tolerated as well. It was done before I bought the house and has been running well that way for 10+ years according to the tech who services it. As I said, the stack temp is over 400, so it should be OK for condensation. It is difficult to get a #1 or lower smoke (it needs LOTS of air), but sooting hasn't been a problem in the past. Maybe the secret is the smaller firebox? It is in rough shape, patched toghether with wet-paks over the years, but it seems to be getting the job done.

I definitely need a smaller boiler, since it is about 3 times oversized for the current radiation load. Even downfired as much as it is, it still cycles in 1-2 minutes once it is making steam (vaporstat with 1psi cut-out, 1/2psi diff).

BigRed

The numbers

Thanks for the no help guys. But here is the print out and the job look!! I think it came out to 16 zones. Any info on the pump pressure adjust would be great thanks again.

Ron Schroeder

JE

First in order is a smoke test, then I would drop CO2 to 11.5 to 12 while keep O2 9 or less and retry smoke. That should keep the flame back a bit and smoke down. I would say your numbers are to close to perfect combustion you need enough excess air to prevent changing conditions. With a 45* nozzle and a short chamber you will be pushing against the target wall or very close.

J.C.A._3

J.E.

Those numbers LOOK good...but what about the smoke?

I like what Jim Davis said about the nozzle. If the oil guy can't get this to fire with a less than 1 smoke at its present settings, I too suspect a nozzle problem.

If the job was speced' right, forget about the downfiring theory. It causes more problems than it fixes most of the time,and will have an adverse effect on both combustion effeciency and CO production. Have the oil guy from the company call Beckett directly from the sight and they will be able to point him in the right direction. Make sure he's ready for all their questions with the latest combustion efficiency numbers, current burner settings and nozzle installed.If he doesn't know how to adjust the fuel unit pressure....I also would suggest an "outside consultant". This is basic oil burner stuff and not anything someone should be touching without the proper training. Just my .02. Chris

BigRed

Smoke test

What will the smoke test tell me?
I only know how to adjust the air. I have never seen anyone adjust pump pressure. Will adjusting the air give the results you mentioned above?
Where is the best spot to do the smoke test?
My coworker did not do a smoke test.
How critcal is the test
Thank you again.

Ron Schroeder

JE

Smoke Test in same hole as effy test, you need a smoke tester ten draws on the handle, when you get a trace of smoke back down the CO2 1.5 to 2%. that should put you right on the mark

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/true_spot.htm

BigRed

Bruce

Thanks again bruce