My wife is ready to kill me

adayton_2

you might want to check out. Can you supply photos of the header? Is it a nice DROP header? You may be getting WET steam.

Alfred

Steve Garson_2

My wife is ready to kill me

In the continuing case of the "whistling air vents"...

My WM SGO-4 steam boiler was installed this summer. The radiatiors totaled 450 EDR, so this boiler was the perfect match.

It was installed per spec, with 27+ inches from the water line to the header. From the header, there is another twelve inched to the main.

The installer did the TSP cleaning and skim. I have been toiling to stop what my kids call the "singing" when the heat goes on...and what my wife calls "irritating". The problem appears only on the first floor radiators.

This is what I have done:

1. Skimmed the boiler five for six times over the months.
2. Boosted the pipe insulation from 1/2-inch to 1-1/2-inch.
3. Installed a VaporStat, with cut-in at 5oz and cut-out at 8oz.
4. Had my oil company reduce the firing rate from 1.2GPM to 1.0GPM.
5. Over the past two weeks, I have been using Rhomar's steam boiler cleaner. There was no "mud-slide" but the system did get a cleaning. I then completely flushed the boiler, drained the wet return and Hartford Loop until the water was clear. Then I refilled, heated the water, skimmed, drained and refilled. Finally firing the boiler, sitting upstairs and listening....same sounds!
6. Then I thought maybe it was the vents: I took a Gorton from upstairs and moved it to a noisy radiator. It quickly made the same sounds.

The sound are from water collecting in the vent. It starts as a quiet bubbling sound and then turns to a whistle. When the vent closes, you can see a drop of water.

My house is very well insulated, so the boiler only comes on for around fifteen minutes an hour, when it's cold.

A retired plumber friend told us not to update the steam boiler since it will be "nothing but trouble". I need to disprove his prediction.

Can anyone offer some further suggestions as to what to try?

Steve
Boston

Long Beach Ed

Try this...

Sounds like your boiler is probably clean.

In some radiators, an air vent with a syphon tube may drain more readily than the Gortons. Gorton makes a teriffic vent, but it depends on its large body size to insure condensate drains from it back into the radiator. Some other vents have a syphon (drip) tube that reaches into the radiator and encourages draining.

Try a Hoffman vent on one troublesome radiator. The slower venting of the Hoffman will reduce steam velocity. This will permit better condensate draining from the radiator with less water via wet steam being thrown back up into the vent. What water does get up there may drain better because of the syphon on the vent.

You may also simply try a slower Gorton vent. Again, the slower venting will reduce the steam velocity and may do the trick.

Let me know if this helps.

Long Beach Ed

Steve Garson_2

I'll try it today. Thanks!

ed wallace

steam problem

Steve as the installer of the boiler i would be more then happy to stop bye and try to help you but you seem to know more then i do

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Steve Garson_2

Ed,

Thanks, but I think these issues are related to the velocity of the steam. Seems like a trial and error process. Today I purchased a new vent for the radiator, so I should know by 9PM if it makes a difference.

John S.

another thing to check...

the pH of the boiler water.

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jeff_57

Pitch?

Are the radiators properly pitched?

Steve Garson_2

Yes, the pitch is fine.

Steve Garson_2

Ed:

I installed a new Hoffman vent on the noisy radiator. Presto! It seems to do the trick. We'll see how it goes in the morning, but I think your simple idea may have done the trick. More tomorrow.

Thanks!

Christian Egli_2

Whew

Steve, I am happy for you and your wife. Hope you still have a warm bed tomorrow morning.

Steve Garson_2

Problem Solved

This morning, we went through a cold start and through the day, the radiator with the new vent was pretty quiet. No whistling or gurgling, just the occasional hiss when the vent opened under pressure.

Mission accomplished!

Thanks to everyone.

Steve Garson_2

Ed:

Thanks for your tip. Mission accomplished! Now I just need to replace one other vent once I buy a replacement.

Thanks again,

Steve

Steve Garson_2

I'll post a picture in the next day or so, but based on all I read, including the WM manual, everything was installed correctly.

Steve Garson_2

Here are the photos

You asked for photos, here they are. The installer was Ed Wallace Heating. The insulation was by me. I still need to get one more plastic elbow cover. The file names bear no relation to the content.

adayton_2

DROP Header Specialists (STEAMHEAD, ME, ANYONE)

have any comments on these photos? While it looks like it MAY have been piped "by the spec book", it certainly does not look like a REAL Drop Header. I see no layout or other reason why this could not be modified to a REAL Drop Header. I believe there could be substantial "drop" (pun intended) in WET steam production which could reduce spitting and hissing. The production of DRY steam at lower pressure (5OZ to 10OZ) may make for easier condensate return. What say YE???

Alfred

Steve Garson_2

This could be an interesting discussion. Right now the cut-in is 4-oz and the cut-out is 9-oz.

adayton_2

Cut-In/Cut-Out Pressure

is perfect. Only remaining question then is whether a "true" BIG fat real drop header would significantly improve the production of DRY steam??
Just for giggles you might try 2oz cut in over 6oz cut out. See if that produces any spitting/hissing reduction AND still provides full heat across all radiation devices.
Alfred

Steamhead (in transit)

Nothing wrong with that header

Ed did a good job, as I expected.

One of the advantages of a drop header is that if the boiler needs two risers from the boiler to the header, a drop header is much easier to install and handles expansion better. You'll notice the vast majority of drop-header pics on this site have two or more risers. But your boiler only uses one riser to the header, so the only advantage of a drop header would be to increase the riser height. From what I can tell, there was no need to do that here.

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Steve Garson_2

Thanks for the opinion. I think we can close this thread and let it drift down the list. One thing I have learned is slow venting and lower pressure makes a big difference in the quietness of my steam system. I don't know where I would have been without everyone's suggestions over the past year.

Now that my system is working fine, I still can't stay away from this site. It's a wonderful place to learn. A true public service.

adayton_2

Header

Thanks for that clarification Steamhead.

Alfred

Steamhead (in transit)

Admit it, Steve

you're hooked! You've caught the Steam Bug, for which there is no known cure.

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