Indirect vs. direct

Bill Nye_2

My customer has a two yr old Buderus [by others] and a 10 yr old Bock 32 E with a wayne burner. The piping to the Bock is badly corroded and the anodes rods have never been serviced. white flakes are coming out of the faucett .

I tried to persaude them to purchase an indirect instead. I don't believe my argument was compelling enough to warrant them to change.

I pointed out stack loss, off cyle loss, burner maintainence [ they want to keep the 10 yr old burner and get a new tank only] I tried to appeal to the environmental side and fuel savings , but I had no facts and figures. Husband and Wife are both professionals so I had a real tough audience. "What's the payback" ? they want to know.

Payback ****, I just know it is the right thing to do, just to ignernt to win an argument. Any help? opinions pro or con?

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Constantin

The answer may be in the stack temps...

Have a look at the stack temps, they may give you the efficiency data you need to make a case for payback at steady-state. I'd like to think that the Buderus will have a much lower stack temp and lower standby losses than the current water heater. Standby losses are (naturally) much harder to quantify.

I'm also scratching my head over the insistance on getting a new oil-fired water heater... it's strange to think that an indirect would be more expensive to get installed.

J.C.A._3

Bill,

You're not crazy, you're right. Initial layout for an indirect IS a bit more....but hit them in the wallet with the fact that you can give them one with a LIFETIME warranty and eliminate 1 more unit (burner) that has to be serviced. You know as well as anyone out there that an oil fired unit just loves to run all year.

If they don't buy it, just think longterm....you've got a unit to service every year and you'll be selling them a new tank within 10 years.(in most cases). Chris

Rich P.

what about reliability?

A ten year old Wayne is just looking for eventual problems
Lifetime warranty is another great point, compared to 5 year
but sometimes they can't see the forest through the tree's
Job security!
good luck
Rich P.

Ron Schroeder

Remind them that no matter how well insulated a direct tank is, it still has a 4" hole in the middle (the flue) that is un-insulated wasting heat 24 hours a day.

An indirect doesn't have that hole to waste heat.

Use an aquastat on the indirect with a wide differential (and a tempering valve on the output) to reduce the number of burner cycles to save them even more energy, reduce pollution from startups and reduce wear and tear on the burner.

Ron

heatboy

Don't beat yourself up.

Just sell them the new tank (with a new mixing valve), make your money (the important part) and move on.

Ron Schroeder_3

Bill, its good to see you care.

It is also good to know that you know.

The single thing that Wallies seem to forget is that most people do not love technology and technical knowledge the way we do. As a consequence, buying decisions are made not on the basis of features and knowledge but based entirely on benefits and feelings.

We have trouble convincing people when we do not really give them time to explain to us what it is they think they want. No matter what we think the would benefit from, If they do not see this as a benefit, they will never buy it.

Good on you though for not immediately giving in to their immediate request. Try to have them explain their sense of value to you. See where what you provide (with your technological advances) fits in to their felt needs.

Bill Nye_2

Complicated

Long story............ I will spare the details.

Ron, Rich, I used both those arguments already. HB, if I keep caving in I am afraid I will compromise myself all the way down to the gutter with all the other lowballer slam artists.

But I will install the tank. I might as well take the money , some one else will if I don't. At least I will install to the best of my ability.

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Keith_8

Don't beat yourself up Bill

Some customers want what they want. You gave them an informed, superior solution and they chose the alternate.

You have a customer who know's what to expect from the oil fired HWH. They aren't interested in saving $ on the unknown. It's their peace of mind and $ to spend.

Do a nice job and move on...

Keith

Weezbo

Bill,try this thought out maybe it will put some light on the

subject,this is an indirect that is designed This Century and incorperates features like the anti scald devise and added insulation,stainless steel tank in tank heat exchanger and actually looks tidy. just what the specific roi may be however is difficult to determine unless you get your esp hat back from the habberdashery.stress that it is exchanging the available heat from the buderus ,therefore it will also be a more quiet operating devise in thier home.

heatboy

We never get everything............

we want, Bill. Remember the Hanyon debacle? Knowing you as well as I do, I know you will never sink that low. You just have to do the best you can on the job you are on. Oh yeah......be sure to make the money you need. Without the money, nothing else matters.

hb