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Designing without a heat loss!

S Davis
S Davis Member Posts: 491
Let me guess did it look something like this?
Make sure it is oxygen barrier tubing or else plan accordingly.

S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating


  • John Jr
    John Jr Member Posts: 210
    It drives me crazy!

    Went to look at a job today it drives me crazy to see what I saw and what I was told by the manufacture of the product used. Company sold them their product and did a layout for them and how to install their product. I called them and told them I was trying to figure out what size boiler was needed for the job and asked if they had the heat loss to go along with their floor design? I was told by them “that is for the heating contractor to figure out and all we do is the layout by zones as to what the customer wants and supply the product to them”. The homeowners installed the product according to the design and left the tubing cut off below the floor (both 1st and 2nd floor) and is in the process of looking for someone to come in and finish the system. They have rooms that should be zoned off separately on the same loops running from room to room.

    I am not here to knock the product, but the way it was designed with no heat loss and the manufacturer not caring about a heat loss, who by the way is a member of the RPA.
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531

    I'm working with one of those now...The tubing is red though. No sign of a barrier either.

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  • Robert O'Connor_12
    John jr.

    I'd pass on it. The "New Breakthrough Technology" has alot to be desired. This product package utilizing direct open systems is NOT approved in the "Great State of New Jersey" without a heat exchanger. It not only will rot ALL the ferrous metal (including the boiler) but also gives bacteria a place to grow. Unless you have REALLY good insurance and are without concience as pertains to making your customers sick, I'd run, not walk away from this job.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Well, it's one of the things...

    ... that makes me scratch my head. Apparently, the RPA is intent on fixing the industry from within by being as inclusive as it can be... up to and including the very contractors/companies that continue to give it a black eye.

    Sounds to me like a project that will require a lot of quiet and careful review to ensure that the system can even heat the home... if it can, then one ought to focus one's attention on ensuring the system won't die an early death due to Oxygen migration and other issues. Good luck.
  • John Jr
    John Jr Member Posts: 210
    Not the company you think!

    I should have told you that it is not the VT Company although I do run into those systems and shake my head.

  • I know exactly the product you are talking about. They are not heating system designers. They are product manufacturers. They know a lot about heating, of course, but no, they are not providing heating system designs; they are providing installation instructions for their product, and that's it. Luckily it's a great product so they aren't usually "designing to the edge" but I have found a couple of instances where even that product couldn't meet load... no floor could, by itself.

    They don't have contacts in all areas I guess, but I do know in many cases they are helping their clients get the "finish design" work they need since the mfg doesn't supply that themselves. So they are trying to help their clients do the right thing, at least. They just don't have the capacity to do it all themselves.

    They are RPA members like Wirsbo or Rehau are members; those companies don't usually design your heating system for you (though, in some cases they might), they just supply products to the radiant heating world. MFG members are not installer members!

    Edit: I do agree with you about hating the stock layouts that ignore wall partitions though. Especially without a load calc, I think that's bad practice.

  • wow, that's nice. most of each plate isn't even touching the subfloor. good stuff! /sarcasm.
This discussion has been closed.