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co detectors for boilers

PS
PS Member Posts: 49
Just had my new VM direct vent (Vitodens)inspected this month - he never said a word about the hardwired CO detector! I have (2)CO detectors upstairs in living areas - I know he didn't see them.

Comments

  • grindog
    grindog Member Posts: 121
    ma. code and co detectors

    i just installed a munchkin boiler and gas inspector wants me to hard wire a co detector with the boiler per new addendum in ma code.
    The problem i am having is that i dont know what style to install? Any one in ma have info regarding what type of detector to install, in regards to what manufacturer to install and what the code book says.
    I was not aware of this new rule and the inspector only told me i need one he couldnt give any insite on a particular brand.
    Any info would be great
  • shawn_10
    shawn_10 Member Posts: 28


    boy that sucks just another thing for electricians to f up.
  • Marty
    Marty Member Posts: 109
    link to changes

    http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards/pl/cmr_prop/amend248cmr5_08.pdf

    There ya go basicly any 110volt with battery backup, Waiting for the day a gas and electric inspector are in the same room fighting over whose code gets followed :)
  • supersonicus
    supersonicus Member Posts: 3
    CO detectors

    You may bwant to talk to Dennis Driscoll the Middleboro inspector. At last nights Inspectors meeting this was the hot topic and no one was sure whats going on.
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,436
    Excuse my bluntness,

    but they should look at their mail and be in touch with their own Board.

    This has been on the books since July 29th to the complete shock of many including me, but there were not a lot of inspectors at the last two meetings I went to in Boston, FACT!

    This action even circumvented the AG and Sec. of State's Office, go figure that one out.


    changes

  • Chuck Shaw_4
    Chuck Shaw_4 Member Posts: 66
    Dennis is no

    longer the Middleboro inspector, he is now a state investigator. However, he is still a great source of information.

    The code changes are far from perfect, they are still a work in progress, at this time, they only apply to direct vent units.

    There is still a lot of work to do in this area, but it is a start. The next step as I see it, is to get mandatory testing for any installed gas appliance, it has to be done for oil. I cant understand why we are not required to do it for gas. I think this would go much further than what they are doing now.

    Chuck
  • Chuck this came up

    at the Gas Networks Meeting recently. A very popular TV personality/contractor basically let it be known that contractors should not be required to do any testing on gas equipment that they install. He stated that the gas company should be doing all testing. He made it pretty clear that contractors are not going to spend any money on combustion test equipment. If the state of Mass can make it code for doing testing and require everyone to be trained then Firedragon is going to have alot of work. This personality has a lot of peoples ears so I know he will be a strong influence against contractor testing.

    It is a definite that the utilities are not going to do it as they are getting out of doing any kind of service.

    I find it intersting that just afew years ago the contractors wanted to take the utilites to court to force them to stop doing service. Now they want it the other way.

    I was turned down by the Mass Board for doing any training of contractors due to the fact that I do not have a gas fitters liscense and therefore as the board stated am not a qualified gas trainer.
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,436
    Anyone who proclaims

    that testing is not required is sadly messed-up. I don't care who he is or more importantly who HE thinks he is, period.

    I'm a registered expert witness in 20 states and have had cases involving the gases (Nat and LP), oil and waste oil. I can't even begin to tell you how critical combustion testing is.

    How about a major soot and IAQ case that was lost over something as insignificant as blower motor rpm?

    More importantly every code and I&O manual I've ever seen requires that it be done. How do you get around that?

    To those that feel testing is not necessary, see you in court! I'll be the one with the box full of gauges and testers, FACT!
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
    Co Detectors

    I was at the was at the Gasnetworks conferance too. It was not said that the co detector had to be hard wired. For direct vent boilers with vent terminations below four feet, there must be a co detector in the mechanical room plugged in to the same circuit as the boiler. and one co det. upstairs(bedrooms).

    And if the vent terminates above four feet, one co det. upstairs.

    There also must be a sign out side at the vent term. stating that there is a vent term there.




    I'm 95% sure of this, but I'd like to hear from someone else that was there.


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  • Ray Landry
    Ray Landry Member Posts: 203


    Ted I have a copy of the MA inspector's monthly newsletter which touches on this subject... When a direct or mechanical vent appliance is installed below four feet a.g. you must have a HARD WIRED co detector with a BATTERY BACK UP installed on the SAME 120volt circuit as the boiler (it was once thought that it had to interlock w/ the ignition circuit and shut off the power to the unit if co is detected, this apparently is not the case) you must have a battery powered co detector on each floor where there is a living space, a copy of the appliance's instructions specific to venting must be left onsite, a manf. approved vent termination must be used, and a sign must be installed four feet above the applicance vent with lettering saying 'gas vent below' when the vent is installed above four feet the only rules applied are the approved termination, install instructions, and the battery powered co detector rule where there is a living space.
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718


    Thank you for explaining it.

    EDIT: OK I read it a couple times and I do not see where it says the co det. HAS to be Hard wired.
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  • Rocky_2
    Rocky_2 Member Posts: 89
    But what brand do you recommend?

    It isn't code here yet, but I just started putting in gas equipment as gas is relatively new here. I have been putting in the "Nighthawk" type on every install just so that I can sleep easier at night. Are there better types on the market that you all are familiar with? Inquiring minds want to know,
    Thanks
    Rocky
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,436
    Read it for yourself:

    here it is:


    MASS GAS & CO

  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Real protection Rocky


    comes from a low level detector.

    Georger Kerr is the pioneer in this area and he has the "CO Experts" unit that I HIGHLY recommend.

    Anything that is UL "approved" is useless, and I mean USELESS.

    Do not kid yourselves folks, the UL listing is an absolute farce. You may think that one is better than nothing, but in reality one is NO different than nothing.

    Attend one Jim Davis course and you will know what I mean. You will NEVER look at combustion and venting the same way again.

    BTW, anyone been testing the new gas water heaters? What have you been finding for stack temps? I haven't tested one yet under 540 degrees diluted. That is above the limit for aluminum chimnies.

    Mark H

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