Buderus indoor sensor with R2107

Dan_15

I need to make my heating system more efficient. I plan to blow insulation into the walls, and I plan to add the Logamatic R2107 controller to my Buderus G215. I am hoping that these two solutions together will cut my fuel costs by 40%. Last year I used 1400+ gallons which is pretty extraordinary for an 1800 sf home. I would like to get that down to about 800 gallons.

I talked to a helpful rep at Buderus to find out exactly how their electronic controls will work with my system. When we got to discussing the indoor sensor, Buderus told me that the indoor sensor is most effective for a constant circ environment with radiant heating or Buderus panels. My system is an old converted gravity system, where the cast iron rads were replaced with fin/tube convectors. Buderus does not advise using the indoor sensor with such convectors, which they consider to be similar in design to baseboard. Nevertheless, they have seen a couple of people do it, and they told me that if I was willing to deal with some trial and error programming, the indoor sensor would definitely squeeze even more efficiency from the system. My biggest concern that I would like to solve is that my system has a very high water mass (2.5” mains in the basement) which takes a very long time to recover from setback. It doesn’t help that the copper convectors do not hold the heat. (Those are some of the reasons I needed the G215 in such a small house). Needless to say, this sucks a ton of oil every day, twice a day, to come out of setback, and continues to suck oil for maintaining temperature. Im wondering if anyone has experience using the R2107 together with the indoor sensor in a system like mine with copper convectors. I am willing to learn how to program the sensor just right, but I don’t understand if the concept will even work in the first place.

Thanks.

Bill Nye_2

Dan

> I need to make my heating system more efficient.

> I plan to blow insulation into the walls, and I

> plan to add the Logamatic R2107 controller to my

> Buderus G215. I am hoping that these two

> solutions together will cut my fuel costs by 40%.

> Last year I used 1400+ gallons which is pretty

> extraordinary for an 1800 sf home. I would like

> to get that down to about 800 gallons.

>

> I

> talked to a helpful rep at Buderus to find out

> exactly how their electronic controls will work

> with my system. When we got to discussing the

> indoor sensor, Buderus told me that the indoor

> sensor is most effective for a constant circ

> environment with radiant heating or Buderus

> panels. My system is an old converted gravity

> system, where the cast iron rads were replaced

> with fin/tube convectors. Buderus does not

> advise using the indoor sensor with such

> convectors, which they consider to be similar in

> design to baseboard. Nevertheless, they have

> seen a couple of people do it, and they told me

> that if I was willing to deal with some trial and

> error programming, the indoor sensor would

> definitely squeeze even more efficiency from the

> system. My biggest concern that I would like to

> solve is that my system has a very high water

> mass (2.5” mains in the basement) which takes a

> very long time to recover from setback. It

> doesn’t help that the copper convectors do not

> hold the heat. (Those are some of the reasons I

> needed the G215 in such a small house). Needless

> to say, this sucks a ton of oil every day, twice

> a day, to come out of setback, and continues to

> suck oil for maintaining temperature. Im

> wondering if anyone has experience using the

> R2107 together with the indoor sensor in a system

> like mine with copper convectors. I am willing

> to learn how to program the sensor just right,

> but I don’t understand if the concept will even

> work in the first place.

>

> Thanks.





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Bill Nye_2

Dan

Are your 2-1/2" mains insulated? If not, you should.

The convectors are just that and require air flow to deliver the heat. They work best at higher temps. It could work though.

Constant circulation or near constant circulation is better than your setback operation because you don't have the off cycle/cold start loss. Every time your 2" mains cool off you have to re-heat all that mass.

Could you stick an iron radiator or two in place off the convectors? Maybe a little staple up floor heat?

I heat a 1911 house, 1400sq.ft. with about 650-700 gallons a year, heat and hot water. 70°. Out door reset, constant circ. . This year I may have to wire the indoor sensor, it has been on the wall for three years now. With the price of fuel, every little bit helps.

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Big Ed

Indoor Sensor

I still like to use the sensor as a remote control and use thermostasts as a high limit. On a very cold day where there is problems comming off a set back you can push the Sun button which leaves the system running.

I had a problem job , G115 , R2107, indoor sensor and barely enough high out put baseboard in the large main room(lack of wall space). We had to increase the boiler off set and gave more control to the room comp. It helped but Charlie at Buderus warned us ,the loss of efficiency. We ended up installing several Buderus"22" panal Radiators which packed in the btus ,and it did the trick. The home owner's love the radiators so much we installed them through out the rest of the house.. A Fairy Tale Ending.......

Dan_15

Yes, Buderus warned that it would be tricky to programm correctly, but not impossible to do. My convectors are fairly high output--they do a fine job of heating--but they just dont hold the heat like cast iron. Do you think I would benefit by getting the indoor sensor to mimic a near constant circ environment with my convectors, or do you think that I will not gain any more efficiency over the alternative, which is to forget about the indoor sensor and just use a plain old setback thermostat. As I mentioned in my previous post, one of the problems I am trying to solve is that I have to heat a large water mass every time I come out of setback, which takes about 1.5 hours to do, and this sucks a lot of oil. Im wondering if the indoor sensor will help me achieve a constant circ environment, and Im wondering if that will be more efficient than setback.

Bill Nye_2

Dan

You could do setback, but not by turning off the pump . Do it by resetting the water temperature. You still have constant circ. but just less water temperature. Does that make any sense?

The indoor sensor it not a horribly big $ investment. It can not hurt, it should save money, it will work, you should be more comfortable. What can you lose?

Night setback is a terrible thing. The recovery period wastes a lot of energy. If the building were to remain unocupied for extended periods then yes. But it can be a major cause of freeze-ups in extreme cold weather. You don't want to setback, you want to turn it up!

Cruise control will deliver the best fuel economy in your car. Start/stop city driving the worst. If you keep your house at a constant temperature you only need to deliver a little energy to "maintain" the temperature. Every time you let it go cold you have the added pick up load to warm up all the pipes and furniture and objects that went cold during your setback.

I am not as well versed in Buderus as I should be, But with Viessmann I know you can reset the water temps by 5 or 10 ° [or more] at night while still using constant circ.

I've gone almost 5 yrs just with the out door sensor and I am truly amazed at the constant temperature and comfort level. I'm sure the indoor sensor will help. I may hook mine up! Thanks.

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