co detectors

Marty_7

Phil,
I work for a distributor in New England. We are placing orders now for Fire X CO alarms. I can get you literature and pricing if you want. You can reach me at 603-518-1453. We have locations in Lowell and Worcester.

Dan C._2

co detectors

MA is now requiring co detedtors to be installed whenever you put in a power vent or direct vent boiler. What are the best ones to buy and where can I get them. I am going to buy them in bulk. Thanks.

Constantin

Two good choices...

Both the National Comfort Institute and the folk at COExperts will sell their excellent CO detectors in bulk. Neither meets UL2034, but then again UL2034 was designed by the other detector companies to cover their heinies from liability, not actually protect people from CO. Quality comes at a price, naturally, but I wouldn't sell anything else. Otherwise, how do you sleep at night?

Jim Davis_3

co detectors

UL Alarms are designed to prevent fire departments and gas companies from being inconvenienced. They want to make darn sure people are injured before they are called. Story after story shows that after UL alarms go off people required hospitalization. With the NSI3000 or CO-Experts you don't usually need medical attention. In fact you don't need to even call anyone but your contractor.

Dan C._2

the code says

they have to meet ANSI/UL 2034 and NFPA 720. I don't think any of those meet these or at least they don't say it

Constantin

They can't meet UL2034...

... because if they met UL2034, you'd risk poisoning people with constant, low levels of CO. You'd also risk not alerting them at all that the CO levels are very high because there is no mandatory quality control that certifies that the CO detectors actually work.

Dan C._2

I understand

I understand that those two are the best to use but if they are not approved then I don't want to put them in and have an inspector fail me because they don't meet the code requirments. What is the best CO detector to use thatmeets those standards

RoosterBoy

Ehemmm.....

maybe you could put them in and do your own thinking...or perhaps you could install the thought in the mind of the inspector to do the same.... i flunked a muni master plumber exam because i refused to give pat answers on twelve of 25 questions....no sorry...no nothing...all the city is after is to fleece the working man and especially if they wont conform to whatever flavor of insanity it has adopted at the momment. well. what of lashing up more than the minimum and using the ones that are designed to work properly? i offered the Electrical contractor and the general to pay for an additional detector and i would pay for it ...these two are thinking hey ! That sounds like a good idea !

Unknown

Mass needs to get

some education on Carbon Monoxide its causes and effects and the importance of low level CO detection. The recent requirements for CO detectors is simply a band aid over cancer and will not address the real issues.

Phil if you really want to protect your customers go with Low level detectors and have literature available to educate the inspectors. Give them my phone number I would be happy to discuss the differences between UL 2034 and rela customer protection. The number is 401-437-0557.

Jim Davis_3

CO & Smoke Alarm

Recently read this in a Combo Alarm Owners guide:
1.Not guaranteed to protect person or property, you should buy insurance for these things.
2.Will only detect CO if CO can get to the alarm, but do not mount alarm near anything that can make CO
3.Mount alarm in areas of good air flow, but not near supply register or return.
The list goes on but then there are 14 different alarm indications that you must know if it goes off.

Gene_3

15+- years ago. A guy had a new home in NorthCentral CT. His daughter was having a slumber party in the basement, he was trying to light a fire in the fireplace upstairs, he couldn't because the house was too tight with no fresh air for any appliance, he finally got the draft going{with tons of newspaper I assume} by sucking down the gas furnace chimney.

The furnace came on and killed the girls in the basement, I think @ 12 girls. A horrible treagedy. This started the CO frenzy, it was on the news and people fought in stores over the last CO Detectors.

The problem which is still not being adressed in my opinion is that BUILDING INSPECTORS are not requiring fresh air for all appliances including fireplaces in new construction, some yeah but this is serious and is the real problem.......EVERY HOME BUILT AFTER 1970'S ARE TOO TIGHT AND ARE USUALLY IN A VACUMM.

Jim Davis_3

If a house was in a vacuum wouldn't we all suffocate? Why do we blame the house when it was the furnace that fail to shut off safely. There was another death in the same area because snow covered the plastic flues of a high efficiency heater. It didn't shut off either so we blame the snow! A CO Alarm that will allow 69ppm of CO in a building indefinitely is just a slower death. When UL Alarms do go off people have been poisoned severely enough to need medical attention and irreversible damage has been caused. In some cases death may still occur such as babies, elderly, people with heart conditions etc.

Mark Hunt

Not what I have been finding

I have performed countless blower door tests on new homes and I can count on one hand the number that would be considered "tight".

If the building envelope was the sole cause of CO poisonings, we would not see any in older homes. But we do. I came across a situation a few years ago in a home that was built in 1785. No-one was dead, but they were being poisoned by CO AND their UL compliant CO detector was sitting silently in the corner. In another instance, a woman and her to little children were exposed to CO that was being produced by an oil boiler located in the center of the home. The house was built in the late 1940's and was styled after the Levitt homes. Not a "tight" home by any stretch. Again, the UL compliant CO alarm with a digital read-out never sounded nor gave any indication that CO was present.

The number of people that succomb to CO poisoning every year on boats would suprise most. Boats are not tight.

CO can be blamed on one thing. Incomplete combustion.

Putting a stamp of approval on a bogus alarm can be blamed on the government.

Not testing for proper combustion can be blamed on one group of people. Contractors.

The best CO detector available is no replacement for annual inspections by QUALIFIED technicians that know what to look for with combustion AND how to fix a problem should they find one. This can only be accomplished by testing with a combustion analyser.

Anything else is guessing, not unlike a UL-2034 compliant CO alarm.

Mark H



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Unknown

Gene, I have been testing buildings

since the 1950's and find that there is really not much difference in the frequency of Carbon Monoxide incidents over the years. There are many causes of CO poisoning and the house structure usually has very little to do with it.

I will not deny that modern houses are much tighter construction and the amount of infiltration air has decreased. The truth is that if proper testing is done any inadequacy of air will show up and then good mechanical means of providing make up air and combustion air can be addressed.

John R. Hall

Hey guys

Maybe we should lobby for another CO panel at ISH-NA next year.