Crimp or QS-20 PEX fittings?

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after you finish. In fact right here on the new want ad section :)

hot rod

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David_24

Crimp or QS-20 PEX connectors / baseboard feed.

I think I'm now sold on plumbing the baseboards with PEX on home run system - certainly running the tube through the joists will be easy. Any comments on this as a new standard?
But the big question is - which is the most dependable connection scheme to use - the crimp style or the QS-20 wrench-it-on style? I'm biased toward QS-20 for some reason - can someone change my mind? Thanks Dave

Al Corelli

We use the regular pex ring/expander setup. We crimp nothing. Stopped using the QS20 fittings (compression) due to cost. Baseboard is a breeze with this stuff. Just beware of errant floor sander guys that blast the pex that goes through the floor. We now sleeve every penetration, only for that reason. And, yes, they have blasted copper too.

When I was at Wirsbo a few weeks ago, we saw that the tubing itself will give up, but only after a pull of more than 350lbs, and the pex ring fittings did not budge.

I swear by Wirsbo Pex products.

And, yes, I've used others, but the Wirsbo stuff is SOOOOOO comprehensive. There is a fitting for almost everything.

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I'd like to

talk you into PAP. 8 x less the expansion as regular pex according to some ad claims. I like the new crimp fitting Wirsbo, and Viega have for PAP tube. Looks great and holds well.

Plenty of baseboard specfic fittings available for it also. Consider 5/8" PAP if loads and flow rates allow. A bit easier than 3/4 to man handle.

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Steve Ebels_3

I'm a big fan of

Viega press fittings. They use a stainless steel ring and the press tool is exactly that, a press. It offers about twice the contact area of a typical copper crimp ring or Otieker(spelling?) clamp. If you look closely at the Viega fitting in Hot Rods picture, you'll notice that the number of ribs/barbs is about double that found on most pex fittings. This also contributes to lots of surface area contact. The press sleeve is a lot like the type of connection you'd find on hydraulic hose. I'd also agree that the PAP type products offer a lot of advantages over regualr pex. They don't expand nearly as much, neater looking and they stay where you bend them. We also use 5/6" for most BB applications.

Rookie

Pex crimp

Watts Pex is what I use, however I do not hook up any heat emitters that require water temp above 170 degree with pex.I use onix, made by Watts, make sure you check that the pex you are using is rated for high temp emitters, you may be better off with copper, just to protect yourself. Good Luck.

Al Corelli

OK. We can talk. I like the PAP from Wirsbo, but I've had no trouble with PEX?
I have little to no problem with expansion noise issues.
Talk me into this.

Al Corelli

BUt, I saw the tubing handle over 350lbs of pull. Why do I need all the extra (expensive) crimping tools, when what I have will more than suffice?

Granted, the PAP having less expansion is OK, but, as stated earlier, I have no problems with expansion.

Of course, the white PAP looks much cleaner and neater...

Al Corelli

I think the PEX we use is 200 degrees F at 80 psi. More than good enough for me.

I've had it at higher pressures and temps and it still held. As close to bulletproof as I need.

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One big plus, Al

is the ability to form nice bends or even straight runs with PAP, and it stays that way! This is a real nice feature when you loop up through the floor. The PAP does not try to un-bend and put strain on the fitting on the BB end.

Also the near boiler piping can be made to look as nice as copper, with some experience.

When I visited Wirsbo this summer, for their open house, that had many of the boilers in the tent piped with multiCor PAP. Boiler to panels, boiler to indirect, etc. Rumor has it larger, say 1-1/4" and up, sizes will be available for boilers in excess of 100K or so that 1" PAP can handle.

Just try it once, we will let you go back to HePex if you aren't convinced A savy supplier, rep, or manufacture should GIVE you the tools for free to try the new fittings and connections. Place a decent order and the tools are yours to keep. Just ask them A crimp tool isn't THAT expensive, in the big scheme of things.

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Al Corelli

Now you have my wheels turning.

I did see all that PAP when at Wirsbo. Looks really nice.

Steve Ebels_3

How many pounds of pull?

Last February, (yes February) we pulled a pair of 1" FostaPex (Viega PAP) tubes 175' through an underground pipe,(It wasn't my idea, just doing what we were hired to do). Twenty foot lengths were used which dictated 7 couplings underground. Long story short, we drilled holes through the ends of the Fosta Pex, looped the 1/2" nylon rope around the bolt and proceeded to pull. All went well until about 80' into the 4" PVC when things became stuck. After futile attempts to pull backward and forward we decided it was either going to move or break and lashed the rope up to the tow hook on the van. It pulled so hard that the van was spinning the tires trying to yank the stuff through. (hint, 1" Fosta pex at 15* does NOT like to bend) I have no idea what the amount of tug exerted on the FP and fittings came to but I can feel safe in saying it was a lot more than 350#. No leaks after pressurizing and operating at 180+ for the rest of the winter.

Tundra

Shark Bite

I use the Rehau Everloc for most of what I do but I have a supply of the Shark Bite fittings for the tight places. It also works great for connecting to the old black or green copper. Just lightly sand it off, push on the Shark Bite, then push on your PEX /copper/ CPVC. It is a bit expensive but the time savings more than makes up for the price.

David_24

Hey guys - all that responded - this is obviously still a hotly debated subject, but I've been steered toward the PAP type tubing for the baseboard connect. My question about fittings was about the fact that it seems the wrench-tite compression (QS20?) type fittings might be able to be tightened with an extra half turn if a leak developed, but that one attachment photo did surely look like a "factory" type connection and looks real good - I think I'm sold on that - whatever the tool costs.
I'm an amateur - doing my own house. I'm so glad I waited and studied this, or I'd have plumbed it like an electrical circuit and had a rusted boiler in a couple years. I've stepped up to primary/secondary pumping, and now even more tricks thanks to you pros..
BTW - my system in a nutshell - 3 boilers (electric - dual fuel rates), propane WM hi-eff, and a heat exchanger that may have outside wood boiler added later (live in woods in northern MN)- Wirsbo in basement concrete, baseboards upstairs - hows that for an amateur project to get installed right the first time? Maybe when my final schematic is done, I'll post it here for you pros to tear apart...I'd appreciate that much!!! Dave