Percolating Buderus Boiler

John Ruhnke

Jeff,

I have a boiler that was installed less then two years ago. It is a Buderus G115X. It just started to tea Kettle a couple weeks ago. My client wants it fixed. I tried flushing the boiler and the water came out crystal clear. No leaks are in the system, the temperature is set to run at 130 now in the warmer months. The temperature and pressure were double checked. There is ne excess air in the system. Everything else checks out O.K. I have to solve this problem too. I may try running the boiler at 200, maybe even 210 or 220 for a few days as a post suggests further down. To try and burst what ever setiment it is free. If that doesn't work I will call Buderus and have them come out.

John Ruhnke

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mph

Noisy Boiler

I have a new customer who complains of their Buderus G124X LP boiler making noise. I checked it out and when the water temp approaches 140F it sounds like a cross between a tea kettle about to boil and a deep-fat fryer when frozen french fries are dropped into it. The noise is definitely coming from the boiler itself.

Any suggestions?

Jeff

Ron Schroeder_3

It most likely is air, assuming that it really is at 140 degrees. How is it piped? Is the circ on the supply or the return? Where is the expansion tank?

Ron

Firedragon_4

Are you on

well water? What's the pH?

mph

Air was my first thought, as well. The expansion tank is not saturated, the pumps are "pumping away", there is no sound of air, the pressure is aprox 20 lbs. Everything looks good.

Jeff

mph

Yes, the home is on well water. I don't know what the PH is. The system has been operating for 6 years with no problem and has only recently started making this noise.

Jeff

Ted_9

Thats what I suspect. Check the ph and clean and treat it. Try Rhomar products. think its www.rhomarwater.com

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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sootmonkey

replce

replace the expantion tank. take the pressure off of the boiler and put a psi guage on the expantion tank. my bet is that the tank is flat. i said flat, not ruptured.

Weezbo

I will second that *~/:) valve off the expansion tank and the

same thing happens....? Yup .."There it is !"

S Ebels

Or..........

You could have a system that was filthy when the 115 was installed and the boiler could contain a bunch of sludge. This would be caused by the debris/crud/rust/scale not being cleaned out of the old system before the 115 was installed. Another cause might be an undetected leak which allows constant make up water to be added to the system. It doesn't take a very big leak to add a lot of fresh water over the course of a year. All of which carries fresh mineral cotent with it causing buidup to occur.

When you have a nice layer of junk in the bottom of the boiler it traps the heat from the fire side instead of allowing it to escape into the fluid. When this happens you form bubbles of steam under the crud which burst causing your noise. Usually this happens with old boilers which have built up over a long period of time. In the instances I mentioned above I have seen it in as little as 2-3 years.
Check out the tank first.

Example of what is happening: Take a pot full of water and bring it to boil on your stove. Observe that just before it boils, air bubles accumulate on the bottom of the pot and then rise to the top. When you have a layer of buildup in the boiler, it traps those bubbles until they have enough pressure to "pop" through the crud. That's your noise.

Mark Eatherton1

6 years eh...

Sounds like induced contamination to me..

Out of the thousands of Buderus boilers we've installed, I am aware of 2 of them that had this issue, but they both had this issue right off the pallet. When we consulted the manufacturer, they paid us to replace it and the problem stopped. They said it was possible that some of the casting sand that it used internally to build the casting may not have busted loose during the shake down procedure at the factory and was causing a hot spot in the heat transfer. Both boilers were of the atmospheric, nat. gas variety.

But yours took 6 years to show up, so I suspect an underground leak someplace, causing fresh water induction, and consequent liming of the sections.

A quick and easy leak test, keep the system pressurized with the normal make up water. Disconnect the wires going to the circulator and turn up a T stat anywhere in the system, preferrably the DHW side. Let the boiler sit over night. If you have a leak in the system and it's a big one, you'll be able to feel the supply main and follow the hot water flowing towards the leak.

Alternatively, shut the make up water off and observe the pressure. If it falls and continues to fall you need to locate the leak with a professional leak detector.

As for the limed up boiler, I guess you could try and salvage the boiler with an acidation treatment, but I think I'd caution the owner in writing, and have them sign off acknowledging that it may cause the boiler to fail, in which case replacement is the bottom line option.

Good Luck and let us know what you find. Buderus is a great company, and any time you're making a million widgets, you can expect a certain number of bad widgets. I'm certain every company has them. In this case, I don't suspect defective product. I suspect defective system.

ME

Dan_15

You guys have covered it all! I would check the expansion tank as suggested above. If it checks out alright, check for a leak, fix and then flush the boiler. George Hunt of Rhomar is a great source for helping with boiler water treatment. They can be reached at 1-800-543-5975.
Because of the design of the G215 it is hard for accumulation to build up, but it can happen.
Please contact us if there are any questions 1-800-283-3787. Thanks,

mph

Great suggestions, guys! I'll check into these things and get back to you with the results.

Thanks for all the help.

Jeff

mph

Latest Update

I've checked the expansion tank; it has 15 PSI precharge. The ph of the water is around 7.5. There is zero hardness. We shut the incoming water supply off for four days and have had no drop in pressure.

I will be contacting Rhomar today with this info. Any other suggestions?

Jeff

Rudy

buderus noise

please check the boiler water pressure with anaccurat guage.if the pressure is down it may be flashing into steam

sootmonkey

hey

I would tend to think Mark E might be on to something. Steve E said what I wanted to, but said it much better. If you have tried everything else that was posted, then I would think that Mark might be on the money with the casting sand thing. I find it hard to tell a customer that they have to live with a perculating boiler. I have Repiped. Flushed with TSP. Increaced Boiler psi. Increaced precharge in extrol tank. Lowwered aquastat settings. And after doing ALL...ALL of the above, The boiler at an apartment building of mine, still tea kettles. SOB...ticks me off just thinking about it. I have good h2o and no leaks. Any thoughts? Unit is a Slant Fin 30. 1993 vintage. I have found that every Slant Fin tea kettles. If I find a cure, I will be a major hero to many customers.

dconnors

try this....

Run the boiler continuous at 200 degrees and see if you can dislodge what might be stuck and making the noise. This may help. If not i would suggest calling us here at 1-800-Buderus.
thanks

Ron Schroeder

Have you checked the actual temperature with a second temperature measuring device? If so, what did you use?

Ron

Dan_15

Check all the burner tubes to see they are burning evenly. Is there any signs of soot in the combustion chamber?

Have there been any additions/changes to the system (new zone, replaced a circulator, flow check, etc..)? Sand from casting usually shows up right away. Keep us up to date.
Thanks,

Rudy

buderus boiler noise

had a laars minitherm boiler jvs 125 that was doing the clang and bang.it had a 007 in the supply side. i added another 007 in the return line.goodby noise.i think it needed more flow because it sounded like it was flashing into steam.