new to steam

Anthony Menafro

Sounds like an equalization and insulation problem to me. Never went for those adjustable air vents either. Size your vents according to your radiator sizes(smaller rads, smaller vent hole sizes) Gorton and Hoffman make five different sizes.
Anthony

Pete_18

The Dead Men left no owners manual. New to Steam Heating

I'm new to Steam Heating since becoming the proud owner of a 1900's house with Steam Radiators. Unfortuntately I don't have Dan's book yet and need to figure something out before we all get hypothermia or a gigantic oil bill. I am going to order the book ASAP.

Basically the short version is that 3-4 of the radiators on the second floor and the one radiator on the third floor never get hot--not even the intake pipe (at least not during normal operation time/I have not tried setting the temperature high and leave it on to see if they ever get hot). I confirmed with the valve on each unit that they're supposedly open. I'm having a difficult time determing if I should be replacing vents on the units or how to tell if the intake valve is stuck shut even though it seems like it's open from the knob. Plus, on the units that have adjustable valves, I have no clue what value the adjustable vent should be set to. Either it appears no air comes out of the vent or too much air comes rushing out of the vents.

I tried closing off one of the downstairs rooms and shutting off the radiators there since they are closest to the boiler and got warm the fastest, but that hasn't made much of a difference for the other units.

The other problem I see is that the previous owners removed the asbsetos insultation from the steam pipes prior to our purchase of the home, reading the summary pages from the web site, it sounds like this is a no-no in steam heating since the basement is receiving the majority of the heat produced from the boiler. Is this a DIY project or do I need to find someone who knows what they're doing to reinsulate the pipes?

Would have been nice if the dead men left me an owners manual.

Any help is welcome. Hypothermia in Boston

Jim Franklin_2

Hypothermia?!?

It's only in the 40s here so far, better toughen up that skin :-)

Try removing the vents from the radiators. If they heat, you're vents are clogged. If not, check for the existence of main vents. Maybe there's a hidden valve to shut off that section of house?

Insulating is a DIY job. Wear eye & lung protection. Do NOT buy the crap they have at Home Depot, it unravels and falls off. Go to someplace like Watertown Supply, they had some when I was there.

(they also are blowing out their Hoffman vent inventory & won't be carrying them anymore - 50% off until they're gone.)

jim

Pete_18

Thanks. I will try to temporarily remove the vents from the units that aren't heating up and see if they heat up. If so, then I guess I'll know it's the vent. Are there any special precautions I should be taking when unscrewing the vent?

I'm seeing a lot of different information on venting. Some information says that a unit should be vented based on its size, others saying that it should be vented a certain way based on its location.

Should I believe this information:

http://www.gorton-valves.com/specify.htm

I don't think any of the vents I have now are different based on the location or size of the unit.

Can I buy a universal vent and just adjust it and use it on all of the units or do I need to purchase different types for each unit based on the floor and how far away they are? I bet all these questions are answered in the book.

It's 53 degrees outside now, but the attic room with it's single radiator that is not even heating up feels like it's about 40 degrees. The house unfortunately has no insulation.

Most of the information I am reading says that vents should be replaced every few years, but my guess is that the vents on these radiators are from the 1970s.

Jim Franklin_2

Venting

Pete - I'm not an expert, I'm just going to repeat what was recently conveyed to me from them to give them a typing break. :-)

Removing vents - the main precaution is turn it the right way. If it's not moving, sometimes turning back & forth will loosen the crud and help it not mar the threads. If it's corroded or strips, it's relatively easy work to tap a new hole. If you do tap, do it dry, don't use oil, it will make its way to the boiler and affect steam production.

Vents - Vent the mains first. Some steam will cheat its way into the early rads before the main is fully purged of air on a long run, so some folks slow down the venting on the early rads by using a slightly smaller vent. Folks here like Gorton. That spec sheet is a good guide and will get you close but needs to be tweaked according to each house & system.

http://www.heatinghelp.com/shopcart/product.cfm?category=2-138

That's a nicely condensed venting reference that gets emailed to you. Figure out the volume of your mains and size the vents so they'll purge in about 3 minutes (this will never happen without insulation). Figuring out the volume in radiators is a bit harder since there are so many of them. Here I would follow the Gorton spec sheet.

Definetly use the same manufacturer throughout the system to ease troubleshooting. I don't know about the worthiness of adjustables, though it seems like one more thing to clog over time. That said, a cheap vent from Home Depot will work better than a clogged vent until you get the numbers sorted out.

jim

ed wallace

venting

Pete how old is the boiler any idea? i am in Watertown call me

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ed wallace

venting

Pete how old is the boiler any idea? i am in Watertown call me

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Pete_18

Thanks for the suggestions.

The boiler is pretty old, it's a Waltham unit from the early 1980s, but it has been serviced every single year. It runs at about 80.5% efficiency and the oil company said that it could run for many more years.

I finally got the vents off (some were painted shut and others were so old it is hard to imagine they were venting) and it has definitely helped a few of the units that weren't heating up. The HD 'Durst' vents that I got seem very flimsy, I may run to the local plumbing supply store next week and see if they have something of higher quality. If I can make it to Watertown, I'll check their supply out. Are these supposed to be highly technical devices? The Durst device seems like nothing more than a dial that you move and based on where you set the dial, a small hole is covered less or more. So is the trick that you're supposed to set the hole smaller for a small unit and larger for a large unit? How do you know when you're at the right balance?

I'm thinking that the current problem (3-4 of the units on the 2nd and 3rd floor not getting hot during normal run time) perhaps has to do with the fact that the previous owners just recently removed the asbestos insulation that
was on the runs in the basement. As a result, a *lot* of heat ends up being released in the basement. I'm pretty sure that if the unit runs for hours non-stop that they'll eventually heat up since they were tested during our
home inspection. What do you think?

I don't think that the valves are stuck shut on these units even though they appear open because they wouldn't have heated up during the home inspection when the heat was set to its highest setting and left on for an extended period
of time.

Jim Franklin_2

Hi Pete..the vents aren't highly technical, but they do need to be somewhat precise, like having seats that seal under pressure and release where they're spec'd to. Cheap ones won't have the quality control that's needed. My HD carries Maid-O-Mist which I've heard of, but since the Gortons are at a nice price point for their quality, I'd go that route.

Definitely insulate unless you plan on keeping pet reptiles in the basement. It may not completely solve the problem but it will bring your system much more into balance and greatly help troubleshooting. Uninsulated basements have large heat losses. Do it today while the supply houses are open. Supposed to be 34 out here in Acton tonight.

Have you looked at your main vents? They're at least as important as the insulation.

I don't know if the adjustable rad vents just control the hole size or control the temperature at which they close, but the setting is right when the radiator heats quickly but doesn't overheat the room. Id start wide open and then gradually close them if the room overheats.

jim

Pete_18

I went down to the basement and I don't see any vents in the basement itself. Is the main vent necessarily something
that I would potentially find in the basement itself or is this just a vent off a radiator close to the basement? I did turn off two radiators on the first floor in a room that were getting the warmest and also closed off this room in a hope that it would help let more heat up to the radiators on the 2nd and 3rd floors.

The main issue I'm still running in to is that I still have 2 radiators on the 2nd floor and 1 unit on the 3rd that during normal runtime won't even get warm. I do feel air coming out of at least one of the unit vents, though these particular units don't even appear to get warm (even the intake valve) without a vent on them.

I'm sure a lot of heat is being lost in the basement due to them removing my wonderful asbestos, but I'm wondering if this is the sole reason that these units aren't heating up. I wish there was some good way to troubleshoot what to do next with these units.

Steamhead (in transit)

Main vents

are at or near the ends of the steam mains. Sometimes you could get away without them in the coal-burning days, but with oil or gas they are mandatory for efficient operation.

You also need to insulate those pipes. You lose five times as much heat from a bare pipe a from an insulated one. This is quite uneconomical.

If you're near Watertown, give Ed a call.

thfurnitureguy_4

Here is the concept behind the main vents. They sit above and at the end of the main, where the pipe drops down and becomes a return. (somewhere after the last radiator). The idea is to vent all the air out of the big pipe fast. This lets the steam arive at the radiators at nearly the same time. This keeps your house from having heat near the boiler and none at the end of the line. The time it takes to purge the big pipe through only the radiator vents, can be enough time for the system to end the cycle. This is most evident on warmer days. So the further down the pipe you get, the less heat, if the main vents are not fast enough or missing. Mesure the length of your mains (only, not the smaller radiator feeds)mesure the diameter of the mains. From this you can figure the number and size of the main vents you need. Main vents look big like a beer can, or stood up like a lollypop about like 2" slice cut off a small coffee can. Some are smaller like a nose cone but with big pipe 1/2 or 3/4". I don't think you can go wrong insulating your mains. Venting will make it better yet. A pro will save you alot of frustration, time an money. If you have no main vents or a place for them a steam guy can drill and tap your mains to install them. It makes a huge diference! best of luck