Munchkin life expectancy & New Mass regulations

jerry scharf_3

There have been any number of past threads on this. If you choose not to read or agree with those, so be it.

jerry

New boiler buyer

Munchkin life expectancy & New Mass regulations

I'm doing a boiler upgrade to a new Munchkin 92% and an indirect HWH. But I have a few questions.

1) What is the life expectancy of these high efficiency condensing boilers? Munchkin gives a 10 year limited warranty. But does anyone have an idea of what the real life expectancy of these units is?

2) I've been told that under the new Mass regulations a Carbon Monoxide detector needs to be hardwired in the basement, but my contractor believes an additional Carbon Monoxide detector needs to be hardwired upstairs in the bedroom area.

I downloaded the regulations from the Mass website and the new regulation reads and I quote "If there is no carbon monoxide detector with an alarm already installed in the residential unit served by the side wall horizontally vented gas fuel equipment, a battery operated carbon monoxide detector with alarm shall be installed....)

So my question? Do I need a second hardwired Carbon monoxide detector?

Thanks for your time

jackchips_2

Yes you do, maybe.

Here is part 2:

In addition to the above requiremens, if there is not one already present, a carbon monoxide detector with an alarm and a battery back-up shall be installed and located in accordance with the installation requirements supplied with the detector on the floor level where the gas equipment is installed.

and 3:

A metal or plastic identification plate shall be permanently mounted to the exterior of the building at a minimum height of eight (8) feet above grade directly in line with the exhaust vent terminal for the horizontally vented gas fueled heating appliance or equipment.

We were also informed yesterday that these regulations may be modified even once more before being officially added to the code book. Right now they are emergency regulations and must be followed.

It may be law shortly, that all residences will be required to install CO detectors within six months and be verified before a sale or re-sale.

The law is being changed almost daily and you will be required to meet whatever version is in place at the time a permit is pulled. The State Board is working with many other State agencies to get a working solution and is accepting and getting input on a daily basis.

Jack

Mike T., Swampeast MO

As to life expectancy of any condensing/modulating boiler, the best advice is that it's currently unknown.

Poor installation will considerably shorten the life of any boiler while proper installation will help to maximize life.

Condensing/modulating boilers are MUCH more complicated than simple old cast iron blocks with little more than a gas valve and an aquastat.

Annual (or at least semi-annual) inspection/cleaning should be considered a must with all boilers of this class. Those using fuel oil have long dealt with annual inspection/cleaning so it's really not a hardship. The gas company however is very unlikely to offer this service like the fuel oil suppliers...

The heat exchangers in all of these boilers come from Europe where they've had a chance to iron out problems in earlier designs. The HXs being used here generally have a roughly 10-20 year track record of good performance in Europe.

Water quality is likely to be more critical. Rhomar offers water testing as well as cleaning and treatment options for nearly any condition. In some cases nothing will need to be done (except perhaps cleaning of an old system); in others water treatment and monitoring will be needed to ensure the longest possible life of the HX.

Doc Radiant

At the risk of creating a considerable ruckus...

...I'm going to say that a condensing boiler may not always make the most economic sense. A few things to keep in mind is (1) the higher cost of the unit, (2) perhaps greater maintainence costs and (3) in high temperature systems like baseboard and hydro-air, will the boiler run in condensing mode often enough to warrant the extra installtion/maintainence expense. Of even greater consideration is the life expectency of a condensing boiler - a 10 year warranty is obviously much shorter than the 20 year warranty of the less efficent cast iron models. If you have to replace the condensing unit just outside of its warranty period, I think it would be safe to assume that it would end up costing considerably more to own and operate.

In low temp systems like radiant, and even high mass/high temp systems like gravity conversions, a 92% condensing boiler makes a lot of sense. But for your average baseboard system, the ecomomics may favor the less costly and (perhaps) longer-lasting 84% cast iron boiler, especially if outdoor reset is not used.

George Peteya_2

Well ...

... you suspected you might start a ruckus.

The Wire Nut...

Wrong Link?

I think you meant this Rhomar, no?

www.rhomarwater.com


Alex

Doc Radiant

Well you know, George...

...you can dress me up but not take me anywhere!

Mike T., Swampeast MO

YES!

Fixed now. Thanks!

New Boiler Buyer_2

Author replies

I guess I should have mentioned my house is 2,400 sq ft and forced hot water.

As far as the Ruckus. I've had 7 different contractors give me quotes. Most were independent, some were National chains (Trane etc..) and not one person has quoted me or advised me to install anything except a new high efficiency condensing boiler.

Most contractors actually refused to give me a quote on a system below 90% efficiency. I preferred to know what my options were. So I went with someone I felt I could work with.

And to all on this board who say it's the contractor not the system that people are buying. It's absolutely true, I was all set to get a WM. My contractor said the Munchkins are better. I trust him. So I'm getting a Munchkin.