5 psi Necessary in One-Pipe Steam System?

Deke

In fact, I've been in touch with Matt Sweeney over the past couple of weeks, and we're finalizing arrangements for him to come and take a look at our system. I've also read Dan's "Lost Art" book cover to cover - tremendous stuff in there.

Many thanks to all for your helpful comments.

D

Deke

5 psi Necessary in One-Pipe Steam System?

I'm the president of a 100-unit, seven-story cooperative in the Bronx. Built in the 1960s with one-pipe steam... you can predict the rest of the story.

We're trying to improve the distribution problems, and maybe save a few dollars on fuel costs. From my research here and elsewhere, it seems like reducing the pressure to 2 psi or even less and checking main vents might help. Our managing agent says that 5 psi is necessary, and running anything less could cause problems or even damage the system, unless we have what he called "Dunham Bush or Skidmore," which he thinks we do not.

Does this make sense? Can running too low a pressure cause problems? It doesn't fit with what I've been reading -- but he's been running buildings a whole lot longer than I have.

soot_seeker_2

No problem

Unless the system has a number of unit heaters, the steam coils with blowers often used in perhaps garages, it will probably heat on less than 5 lbs.

Either way, no damage will be done by lowering the pressure. Try it. The worst that will happen is some branches will not heat properly.

Actually, this is probably a task for a good professional. If it's like most steam systems, the last time someone with any steam knowledge looked at at the thing Eisenhower was president.

Spend a few bucks, have a survey done of the condition of this beast and you'll save a few bucks for sure.

Long Beach Ed

gerry gill

according to Dan,

the empire state building is heated with 5 pounds..how big is your place..i'd go along with Ed and try it..bet it works..

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Boilerpro_3

Go For it

Most one pipe steam systems I see run on 5 ounces not 5 psi pressure. If you have trvs on the system and no setback, you will never see full steam load unless the building is sitting empty. All the internal gains will keep alot of the radiator valves off, so pressure drop through the system will be real low. A staged or modulating steam plant is just the trick for this type of system.

Boilerpro

Steamhead (in transit)

Crank it Down!

You don't need that much pressure. Maybe your management company has ties to whoever you buy your fuel from, and is trying to increase their sales.

If you crank it down and then have steam distribution problems, you need to upgrade your main vents- NOT turn the pressure back up.

Deke

Responses Appreciated

I appreciate all of the responses.

I've thought from the start that we'll need to have someone good take a look. But how do we find the right person, and what will it cost? We obviously need someone near New York City with a pipeline (no pun intended) to the "Dead Men," not your run-of-the-mill consultant. So we need to identify him (or her!), then I need to convince the rest of our Board, as well as our managing agent, that it's the right person.

Incidentally, our manager is generally very good -- but on this issue, I suspect his own education and experience are simply off the mark. All too common, as this Web site amply demonstrates. I've already shared with them some tremendous material I culled from heatinghelp.com. But they don't yet believe what I'm telling them.

Deke

Ron Schroeder

Find a Professional

link to the left of this page

scott inM.E.

Page 15 \"the 2-psi standard\"....

This section in dan's lost art of steam will help. Chapter 2 clears up all the ?'s.

Deke

Finding the RIGHT Professional

I tried the "Find a Professional" link before mny first post here. (I've checked out the site pretty thoroughly, and also have a book order in.) Surprisingly few names came up, considering this is New York City.

But what does this tell me? Does a firm's appearance here guarantee that they are truly good? Are they screened in some way? Or do I just start making cold calls to them and try to figure out somehow if they're actually what Dan calls "knuckleheads"?

Do I need a heating and plumbing company, which is what's listed, or just a consultant? What I really need is someone who knows their stuff, AND can easily convince my Board and building manager to believe them. And preferably won't blow this year's budget for the cooperative.

I'm not trying to be difficult -- but I'll be telling my people to spend some real money on whoever I recommend, and that won't be an easy sell. I'd better be right.

Deke

Steamhead (in transit)

Why not call

someone who has installed steam in his own house- Matt "Mad Dog" Sweeney, of Triple Crown P&H in Floral Park?

Ron Schroeder

I agree W Steamhead

Matt Sweeney of Triple Cropwn should be your first call

Boilerpro_3

Matt's the Man to call!

Mad Doctor Q

Deke: 5psi

A little late on reading The Wall. Dunham-Busch and Skidmore are companies that manufacture among other things vacuum tanks for low or variable vacuum systems. You obviously know that your system is a one pipe steam system, therefore your managing agent seems not well informed. I instruct on these systems and am familiar with them. You cannot go wrong with Dan Holohan's book, you do not need 5psi. These guys on the wall here know their stuff. Ask the managing agent to let you give it a shot what have you got to lose?. Also, cosider things like pipe pitching, radiators pitched in the right direction, properly sized air vents, etc. If the Empire
State bldg can do it, so can yours. Q!

Eirik

contractors

Any contractor will charge you a moderate fee to come do a survey, it won't bankrupt you to have 3 or 4 come and take a look. . . very few knuckleheads are in business, especially in the city. I'd rather get a recomendation from someone who isn't wasting all their time and life on the internet and is actually out working for a living.

Steamhead (in transit)

Uhhhh, Hank

that was uncalled for.

Two of the people in this thread- Long Beach Ed and Boilerpro, besides myself- are contractors who spend a lot of time "actually out working for a living". And those are just the ones I'm familiar with. We all know Mad Dog Sweeney and agree he is the one to call for a job like this.

We're not "wasting all (our) time and life on the internet". Message/discussion boards like DragonTalk, OilTechTalk and this one are the best thing to happen to this industry in years. Here the best and the brightest come together to share our knowledge.

I don't agree that "very few knuckleheads are in business". We see their lousy work all the time. Personally I wonder how they stay in business at all.

Check out our Find a Professional ads on this site, and some of the jobs posted in threads on the board. You'll see a lot of pics that show what we're capable of. If you're a contractor, you'll appreciate the time and effort we put into our work to get the results we get. If you're a homeowner, you'll get an idea of what someone from the Wall can do for you.

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Eirik

n

I'm familiar with you guys and you're right, you care about what's going on. . . but there are a LOT of people who post WAY too much on this website about things they know only a little about. The internet is not as perfect a resource as some people make it out to be. I'm a mechanic for a plumbing contractor, I flip around here once in a while to get ideas, and 9 out of 10 posts are useless babbling of people trying to prove how smart they are. The internet is useful, yeah, but not a place to spend your life.

David Sutton_6

There are way to many knuckleheads

out there, and most of the guys here are true pro's who are constanly learning more.

As far a reconmondation get a call into Mad Dod he's your man, knows his trade and is up front and honest!..David

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