should I remove my radiators?

thfurnitureguy_4

Some thoughts, Your system was the best available for the year it was installed. There have been improvememts over the years in boiler technology and controls. Keep in mind you are now going to take a system out that gives you heaters in each room that warm your body and not just the air in the room. Forced air heat has to warm a body of air in the basement and push it through a hundred feet of duct (cold) before it reaches you. That air is cold for the first few min. as it purges the duct. Your steam system is a large heavy chunck or iron that stays warm throughout the steam cycle. You have an even warmth in the room and no drafts from the system. You will loose comfort by changing to forced air. You could gain efficiency by keeping your system and replacing your boiler, providing you get a STEAM professional to tune up your vents and controls and do a proper install on a higher efficiency boiler.

On AC there are a number of "hi velocty AC units that thread small ducts to your rooms. The units will install in the atic, with the ducts hidden in the walls. They work better with the registers coming from the celing. This alows the cold air to fall and mix in the room. Dual systems let you locate your heat/ cool emitters in the ideal location for comfort and efficiency as well as providing for off season maintance with out service interupt.

Warning The average HVAC guy knows little about steam. They push what they know and not what may be best for your older building. The find a pro box on this site, is an excellent sorce for steam pros in your area. Best of luck with your project.

Madelyn

system choices

Hi

I am in a brownstone built in 1885 which currently has a 2 pipe vacuum steam heating system with a huge boiler. It all works quite well. We are considering an extensive renovation with the implimentation of air-conditioning. It has been suggested that we remove our current system completely and solve all our needs(heating and cooling) with one system. Others have said that we should leave our current system intact. What is the best choice?

thanks for your thoughts.

ed wallace

system choices

stay with steam to heat your house when the rads get hot they hold the heat with warm air system you get drafts and cold spots if adding a/c to an older house look into hi velocity systems or mini ductless systems

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Boilerpro_3

the furnitureguy hit it on the nose

To expand.
It has been known for decades, that using a single ductwork system for both heating and cooling is very inefficient and uncomfortable. The air volume needs and where they should be delivered to the space are radically different for heating and cooling.

As already expressed, your old steam radiators heat like sunshine, delivering radiant heat that heats objects directly and air secondarily. Go stand in the sun by a window and you will fill the direct effect of radiant heating. Or stand in front of one of your toasty warm radiators and then take a large pice of cardboard and place it betweeen you and the radiator. You will immediately feel colder. The contractors that recommend complete removal of the steam system and installation of a very compromised combo air system are going to take away your comfort! They are not looking to you best interest, but only what is easy for them! They probably have little knowledge of steam heating and/or have nearly no knowledge of the fundamentals of comfort.

A few brief stories:

I had a potential client call a few years ago complaining about how uneven his house heated with his current steam system. He wanted to see if the heat could be evened out some and wanted to make sure the system was safe for a few more years until he raised the funds to tear it out and replace it with forced air. We went through the system, checked over and cleaned the boiler, showed the homeowner basic maintenance procedures. Then we went upstairs, replaced the air vents with adjustable air vents and rebalanced the system. Room temperatures went from 7 degrees Farenheit different from room to room to 1/2 degree Farenheit difference. He called back last fall wanting to talk about a boiler replacement....he no longers want to part with his steam system.

Second story:
A neighbor just down the block from us had thier ancient steam boiler go bad. She called a heating contractor in and they recommended tearing out the steam system and putting in forced air heating and cooling(we had not moved into the area yet). The owner said go for it. I speak this neighbor often. Her fuel bills are outrageous and they are constantly cold, even with the thermostat up at 72 to 74. She is still "steamed" over how she was taken and this happened over 13 years ago.

Keep the steam!

Boilerpro

John Ruhnke

Convert the team to warm water............

Madelyn,

Convert the steam system to warm water. Install outdoor reset controls and danfoss valves on every radiator. On a two pipe system you can easily do this without changing any pipes in the walls. It will make your system even more comfortable. You will have a slow gentel steady and comfortable heat emitting from the radiators. You will also have a balenced system in every room.

JR

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Christian Egli_2

Cost comfort and value proven since (1885)

You won't find anything more comfortable, more rapid at the similar efficiencies than what you've already got, namely steam! The most valuable thing you can do is to get your steam system a nice tune up and good maintenance.

Steam maintenance is often neglected because the system operates so reliably, yours is presumably an investment that has been paying long standing dividends. Any other system, hot air, hot water, would have long fallen into bankruptcy and would already have needed several cash infusions.

For AC, like other posts here suggest, get the system that cools most optimally.

One option of possible interest.

Even though heating and cooling have opposite requirements, your new AC system could be featured with a heat pump mode (that's just a relatively inexpensive switch). This way, in mild weather, you could have some hot air heat.

Just to convince yourself that it is not all that it is cracked up to be... The benefit: a cheap (for real) redundant heat system, and with today's fuel cost, heat pumps are an efficient alternative until its gets (sub fifty-ish Fahrenheit) cold outside. That's when it's time to turn the boiler on and steam-roll your way to comfort.

So, why give it all up?

Kevin O. Pulver

Madelyn

What John is saying is that you can have the same comfort with steam or hot water, but you can maybe get more efficiency using water instead of steam in your radiators.
We are all admittedly biased here AWAY from forced air. But we are biased for good reason- the same way that Americans are biased for capitalism and against communism- it's a better system. The only advantage forced air has is that it's quick and cheap... but you "pay for it" the rest of your life. And you don't have to go that route because you already have the system. You either just need to give it a tune up and balancing, or at worst could change boilers and get more efficient. But please don't kill your radiator system, you;ll live to regret it! Kevin

GusHerb

stay

Stick with what you got. ive been living with forced air for 11 years and theres no comfort its noisy its not as reliable and it hits the allergys. this past year i've lived with rads its 10 degrees out and i couldnt be more comfortable. for air conditioning try unicosystem.com. Jon

ChasMan

Forced Air

You know, a well designed forced air system is more comfortable than a poorly designed hydronic one and it looks a lot nicer too. Very few people think that radiators and baseboards are attractive. Id even say that they detract from resale value. The trouble with this is of course oil furnaces dont modulate which makes it all but impossible to do properly but if you have a multi stage gas unit, properly sized, it is much nicer than living with tinky winky under your desk.. Although I dont have any slippers on at the moment and my toes are nice and toasty...

Let me rethink this.. Forced air ****. It looks nicer but its no fun at all.

ttekushan_2

Steam choice

Short answer:

Keep the steam.

Long answer:

Keep the steam.


Why do we trust only those with a vested interest in taking our money? You own the system you've got. It is also superior to just about everything. "Well, smartypants, if these steam systems are so good, why don't they install them anymore? Huh? HUH?" How about because it would cost about 15 times more to install than installing forced air.

The steam system's greatest shortcoming is that it can't compare with the hot air that blows forth from those who hawk these combo heat/cool units. "Hey, you buy the AC and the heater part's FREE!" Why doesn't this automatically create a bit of suspicion about the inherent qualities of these units?

These salespeople have destroyed more superior steam systems than I care to think about. I picked up a boatload of radiators from a church that suffered this fate. Its a rambling set of buildings with one boiler room. Now they have these units outside in the garden, parking lot, etc. The floor to cieling temp differential in the Nave is now out of control. Peripheral areas that can't be reached with vents are now heated with electric baseboard. Their total heating costs have escalated. But at least they have AC!

So there. I feel much better now.

-Terry

Steamhead (in transit)

Au contraire

a steam-to-hot-water conversion can be way more trouble than it's worth. I've seen some real disasters. Go here for more:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

Madelyn, you probably have a Vapor system which was the Cadillac of heating in its day, and is still one of the best out there. When this type of system is running well- and that's not hard to achieve- it will give you years of efficient comfort.

Don't fall victim to the scorched-air pushers. Keep your steam/Vapor system and go with mini-duct (Unico or Space-Pak) for your A/C.

Try the Find a Professional page of this site to locate a good steam man near you. Also, how about taking some pics of the piping in the boiler area, the boiler itself and a few radiators and posting them here? Also see if you can find any manufacturer's info on the system components. This will help us ID your system and be more specific.

Can you tell we love this old stuff?

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FredR

My thoughts are, use a system designed for heating and a system designed for cooling,of course properly selected and installed.
My 2¢.
As stated earlier by John, keep the system steam or hot water the results will be a more comfortable and dependable
heat.

If you feel the need for self flagellation, switch to a system designed for cooling and also used for heating.(air to air heatpump).
High maintenance,low comfort. The efficency is touted and little is said about comfort. Air to air heatpumps are good coolers and lousy heaters,IMO.