What to demand from your HVAC contractor

Paul Pollets

Are you saying combustion analysis and advanced oil burner or gas valve pressure setup should be disregarded because the customer may not be able to pay for it? I believe it is lack of training on the contractor's side. When 70% of service technicians don't even own a Magnahelic, it's rather obvious that we've a long way to go both in technical requirements and sales/pricing approaches to the customer. Having several certifications can make you more credible. It may matter less if it is NATE or the RPA, as long as you feel the certifier is doing a great training job.

I disagree that affluence makes the difference.

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Timco

I got this from an HVAC contractor in my area that adverts on the google side bar. I did not see combustion analysis nor do I believe they offer it. (name crossed out intentionally)

Tim

Empire_2

Sounds OK

but what about the NASSA engineering certificate. I was wondering if and where does it stop? I agree that training and more training should make the hi standards of the utmost importance, but, I'll bet That MOST of the good, Hard working HVAC service companies cant possibly demand this type of backing due to the hi cost. Think about it... I am in no way saying that this is unattainable or incorrect, but I wish to just convey my thoughts on an already overtaxed society that wants top of the line service and the warranties and certificates to match for pennies on the dollar. You must live in an affluent area. No disrespect intended....Oh I almost forgot, if it weeds out the "Fly By Night" companies,.OK

Empire_2

Not at all, Paul

I live in an area where I spend alot of money if for no reason, buy to cover my own a**. The customers here are how should I say..."CHEAP". I have almost every practicle tool availiable to this industry to Diagnose, perform technical checks, and predict problems before they happen. I am doing my job. I guess my frustration is the fact that with the initial investment in tools, the majority allways say they can get it cheaper. wow that hurts, especially when I take the time, school myself, and do the right thing. My customer base is steady, but not where I want it to be. Maybe I need a lesson in,...Business or something. Again, by no means was I even hinting on what is or is not important.

jim lockard

3 hour window

That 3 hour window at 24/7 may be a little hard to make.

Empire_2

Parts/Labor on service repair

We currently honor 60 days labor/ 1 year parts. Our manufacturers only offer 1 year. I am not able to go that extra year yet. I see no reason to guarentee something that I do not make myself.

Timco

Just Salt Lake City...Goes from affluent to poor...just like the rest. I can offer CA, and am cert with RMGA, but the rest??? I can't offer any warranty beyond the mfg. either, nor can I afford to be available 24/7 with no OT charge. Seems like I saw a debate (loooong thread) a while back about the flat rate thing as well....

Tim

Tom_35

Raise the bar in your area.

The population of our town is in the low 80,000 area. Arkansas is also towards the bottom of the annual earnings in the U.S. It was tough when we made the decision to price our services based on our needs and not what our competition did.

We offer many of the things the contractor you listed on this thread. We took lots of heat from the other local contractors when we went from having our prices right in line with them to raising them significantly. We were told that we wouldn't stay in business for another year, and everything else in between.

That was 1990 and we're still around. Our techs are the best paid in town, have thousands of dollars of diagnostic tools, and our reputation in town is "yes they are the most expensive, but they offer the best service, warranties, and they have the best knowledge around."

We offer a 2-year parts and labor warranty on all service repairs. Guess what---we built it into the repair and we make money off it. Keep track of some of your repairs and you'll also find that the parts very rarely fail within 2 years. And yes, the manufacturer does only stand behind most of the parts for a year.

We work 6 days a week, 7:00 to 7:00 with no OT charges.

We have NATE certified techs.

We don't have the guaranteed show-up timeframe, but we are there within an hour of the expected time or we call and let the customer know of the delay.

I don't remember all the other things the contractor listed, but regardless, just make a list of what you think the ideal service provider you would like to deal with, then start implementing those things in your business. You don't have to do it all at 1 time, but you can get started and others will eventually start to fall in line.

You can't be the best, offer the most, and have the same pricing that everyone else has.

Tom Atchley

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Just sounds like a contractor trying to make their a name based on their own, carefully selected criterion.

Notably unmentioned: "Heating appliance sizing and replacement based upon carefully conducted heat loss calculation."

Mitch_6

Missing the point.

You should see how they charge. If you worked enough into your "flat rate" then it does not matter if it is regular time or ot.

Customer calls wants someone out after hours you say it will be time plus half (your regular rate is 100 per hour but he does not even know your rate just hears time plus half)customer says I'm not paying extra for you to come out and calls someone else they say same rate 24 /7 $150.00 per hour and get the job.

you mark up your parts 25% to 35% barely covers handling and the labor or an occasional warranty claim.

They mark up 100% so what if one of every 100 items installed have to be replaced two years later.

I am not flat rate but have looked into and that is how it is structured. If you can get the H.O. to bite great. It is all how you market yourself and present it to the H.O.

Mitch S.

Tony_23

Excellent last sentence.

That sums it up as far as pricing goes.

I'm in a very rural area, 50,000 people in the county, and I've ALWAYS warrantied my labor at least a year. If I have that much problem with a product that I lose money on warranty, I quit using that product.

I've recently experienced an influx of customers I USED TO HAVE. Maybe the cheaper guy has run his course. I'm talking 10-12 years since some of these people have called me last, and now they're dumping $7-10k jobs in my lap. Puzzling at first, but one of them implied unhappiness at the chintzy product and no warranty call-backs.

Like Frank Drebin said, "Ahh, the cows have come home to roost."

Mark Hunt

Ditto!

> That sums it up as far as pricing goes.

>

> I'm in

> a very rural area, 50,000 people in the county,

> and I've ALWAYS warrantied my labor at least a

> year. If I have that much problem with a product

> that I lose money on warranty, I quit using that

> product.

>

> I've recently experienced an influx

> of customers I USED TO HAVE. Maybe the cheaper

> guy has run his course. I'm talking 10-12 years

> since some of these people have called me last,

> and now they're dumping $7-10k jobs in my lap.

> Puzzling at first, but one of them implied

> unhappiness at the chintzy product and no

> warranty call-backs.

>

> Like Frank Drebin said,

> "Ahh, the cows have come home to roost."





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Mark Hunt

Ditto!

What Tony said!

Stop competing! Put yourself above the competition and you will have none. Differentiate. Emphasize your uniqueness. Every little thing that you do that "they" don't is a plus.

Hot buttons my friends. PUSH THEM!

If price was the deciding factor on all jobs, then we would all be out of business.

Folks want value. Your job is to identify the value that you alone bring and emphasize the daylights out of it. It's the only thing that separates you from the rest of the pack. So DO NOT hide it. SHOUT IT!

Mark H

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D107

getting a good contract

When I ran a coop in nyc I wrote all the contracts for heating, plumbing, everything and to protect the coop i always had boilerplate phrases like contractor will indemnify coop for any damage or injuries, etc. Then we often had to get documents having coop as a named insured on liability policies and insisted they have workman's comp if the contractor-owner himself wasn't doing the work. If he was doing the work himself--and was therefore allowed not to have workman's comp--there was some other waiver he had to sign so if he got hurt on our property he couldn't sue us.

The advantage to writing the contract ourselves was ensuring the exact specifications as to job, material, time frame, payment conditions, etc. Never had a problem with anyone signing it--i think they knew we weren't trying to squeeze them; i did have some knowledge of the job, could talk their language a bit and wasn't out to score points just get the job done right.

So now as a homeowner seems overkill to do all that; i tend to use the contractor's contract and with email and computers it's easier to insert particular language. without the clout of the larger co-op kind of jobs, some contractors balk at workman's comp or very detailed specs. Whoever writes the contracts tends to protect primarily themselves. What do the pros think about this?

David

Tom_35

Mitch and Tim,

A few questions---

Is there anything wrong with have correct margins that allow a contractor to offer the value to the customers that includes an extraordinary warranty? When a customer pays a "healthy" price for a part, don't you think they would like to know that they aren't facing the same possible repair cost a few months later?

We instituted the 2-year parts and labor warranty 8-9 years ago, and yes, we've had it kick in a few times---but the majority of the time, it is never even close to a problem. And when it does happen, you can't imagine how the customer reacts when they're told they owe nothing. Most of the time, they don't remember that they received a 2-year warranty, and they think you hung the moon when you bring it up that the repair is not costing them.

As far as marking a part up 35-40%, that's your fault. If you are running a successful service business, your service overhead is probably in the area of 45% or so. When you have "barely marked up" the part, then you are the loser.

I would suggest that you look at Ellen Rohr's book "Where Did The Money Go" and a few other business books. Would also suggest that you learn the difference between mark-up and margin, and realize that it's OK to make a decent living.

I think Mitch mentioned something about 100% mark-up on a part. Let me ask you, would you buy from someone that consistently had a 1,000% margin? Your're probably thinking that there's no way you would do that. Well, you probably do if you buy ice tea at a restaurant, or soft drinks from fast food restaurants. The cost of the cup is the greatest cost on the drinks at fast food restaurants.

I don't know what labor charges you have, but based on your post, I imagine it is on the lower end. And why? The last time we had a copier serviced, a tech came in with a small brief case of tools, a cloth, and some cleaner. The cost---$145.00 for less than an hour. The tech was in a small compact car and I can guarantee you their liability insurance, workman's comp, and diagnostic tools don't come close to what we have. Does that copier tech provide a more important job than what you do?

As long as the trade people think they have to charge a service rate, or installation fee, that is competitive with companies that don't know their real costs, we will always struggle with low wages, not being able to take care of our customers because we didn't put enough money into the job in the first place, and not being able to attract new people to our trade.

To the progressive contractor that this thread was started about---stay the course. We need more like you.

Mark Hunt

Perfect


Absolutely perfect.

Knowing one's cost is important, but knowing one's VALUE is just as important.

Thanks Tom.

Mark H

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Empire_2

Kudo's to all of you.

I am learning alot as to the way I charge and what other opinions are. I guess it would be nice if there were standards as to fair and unfair, but who is to say. Like the previous post "you have to make your self worth the service you provide" On top of that you have to BACK it up. I agree with that. THANK YOU ALL.

Timco

I warranty my service 1 year P&L. After 90 days, You would have to say the labor was done correctly. I mark up 60% across the board, with some exceptions where it may be higher. I am glad to take it every now and then to have the customer know I am there for them. It just seems 2 years is just trying to 'appear' better...if a part lasts one year, and I did a good job on the inspection & install, it should last for 5, 10, 15 years...correct? I offer my customer more by providing combustion analysis and having a very extensive check list. 12 items??? Mine is longer than that without breaking out all the checks in a combustion test. 27/7??? I do after hours as well, but my evening is worth more than my day, and I prefer to not charge every call as it was an emergency. I am RMGA cert as well. What about a warranty on full service? What if an ignitor goes out 3 months (or days) after a full service & inspection? My customers are very pleased with my end result, and like seeing the printout of what their appliance is doing. I just feel a year is pleanty. I cannot build the cost of a new pump into every service & inspection.

Tim

jim lockard

how does

this figure in. I tell customer I will stop by after 2pm, ok I will be here. 2:30pm Knock on door no one home but kids-(do not enter homes without adult present) My mommys working she gets home after 4pm. Great Later. So do I charge a no show fee to the customer or am I just honored to do her work? during my dinner hour? along with driving back for free?

Mitch_6

A good customer with an honest mistake I would

let slide but would not go back the same day if it was getting late.

A new customer would get a bill, but we all no we will never get paid for it and it will be the last time they call us.

Mitch S.

Ron Schroeder

After 4

gladly come back @ OT rates or reschedule

gerry gill

thats where its great to have regular customers

you know..the kind that give you their keys..too bad they arn't all regulars tho..

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