Baxi reliability

Steve Goldstein

I just checked with my contractor, and he was already planning to install an outdoor sensor on my new system.

Steve Goldstein

Baxi reliability

I'm about to replace my 23-yr-old Utica boiler. I'm trying to decide between a similar cast-iron boiler and a high-efficiency Baxi HT modulating/condensing boiler.

The price difference is about $3k between the two installations. I figure the Baxi's efficiency would pay for the price difference in approx 4 years.

The one thing I'm struggling with is that a new cast iron boiler is a proven device, and should provide reliable service for decades. I'm not sure what to expect from something high-tech like the Baxi.

Any thoughts? I know technology like the Baxi is more popular in Europe. Is there any sense of how reliable this technology is?

You can assume that I would have either system properly maintained by a professional on an annual basis.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

What Baxi model? If the cast iron (modulating but not condensing), I'd be a bit wary as it appears that they're being fazed out--or at least won't be able to be sold in their country of origin (likely the entire EU as well) in the very near future as they are non-condensing.

What kind of emitters in your system?

I'd say that such laws requiring condensing boilers in most cases speak very well for the general reliability and soundness of the technology.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Double post--my ISP is acting up!

Steve Goldstein

Baxi model

It's the Baxi Luna HT, which is modulating/condensing and has a nickel-chrome stainless steel burner.

My existing radiators are copper fin baseboard, and there is enough extra lineal feet of copper fin that the boiler should be able to run in condensing mode much of the time.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Haven't used. From what I read BAXI has a good reputation in the UK. Your system sounds reasonably well-suited to condensing/modulating boilers. I would however find out if there is a built-in supply temp limit (likely 75°C; 167°F) for complete operation. You may have to dig DEEPLY to find the answer to this question! At least there won't be a language barrier if you contact Baxi directly...

If so, verify that your system will work with these temps. Also realize that if such limit exists then your ability to recover from any setback can be greatly affected--even if the max temp is suitable to maintain conditions. I would not however rule out this (or any) condensing/modulating boiler because of any such limit on supply temp. Provided the temp is adequate for maintenance, just use less (or no) daily room temp setback!

Steve Goldstein

max temp

Actually, I didn't have to dig deep at all. The brochure says "Regulation of water temperature in heating circuit--high temp: 180 degrees; low temp: 113 degrees"

Is that the info you were asking about?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Sounds like it has modes optimized for either high-temp or low-temp systems. Perhaps someone with direct knowledge will reply!

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Sounds like it has modes optimized for either high-temp or low-temp systems. Perhaps someone with direct knowledge will reply!

chapchap70_2

Monkey wrench

If your mind is made up that you are going for one of your two choices, disregard this.

If you want a high efficiency boiler with a proven track record which is made in America, try this website.

http://www.energykinetics.com

Tony_23

Baxi

I have a couple of the Luna 310i units out there. Minor issues, some related to learning curve

Haven't installed any HT's because I'm pretty much in "love" with the Weil-Mclain Ultra

Did you rectify your venting issue ?

Steve Goldstein_2

Baxi Luna HT venting

The contractor tells me that he's confirmed that he can vent through PVC up my chimney, and that pressure differential is not a problem either.

Unknown

we have

installed quite a few of the older non-condensing Lunas in the past, the only problems we encountered with them that i can remember was the diaphragms in the combi models would fail after a couple of years, Baxi replaced them under warranty and haven't had any call backs yet.

haven't tried the new condensing versions yet thoug i'm eager to try.

Joe_58

Baxi Info

To answer a few questions...

I am a Baxi Rep in the US. Baxi comes from Italy, and is one of the larges boiler manufacturers in Europe. As for the replacement, if your heating system is low temp. (i.e. you are using some sort of mixing system to provide water to your heating system) then the condensing unit would be ideal. If you are using high water temperatures in your heating system, stay away from condensing boilers. They have the higher efficiency ratings because they operate at lower temperatures (generally 140F or lower). Without going into too many details, if your heating system requires higher temperatures, you can use the condensing models and would receive a marginal increase in the efficiency of the boiler because it has more controls, but you'd be money ahead if you went with a standard model. They have a lower advertised efficiency (you'd get about the same from a condensing boiler in high temp applications), but it is designed for your application and will cost far less. You still get the benefits of a low mass boiler with a modulating burner, which will be more efficient (overall) than a cast iron boiler.

As for reliability, the only problems we've really had were from the learning curve of the contractors learning how to set up the burner.

Steve Goldstein_2

I asked this very question

Hi Joe,

My current system is a hot water system. My radiators are copper fin.

The analysis of my house revealed that a condensing boiler would work because I have enough extra (more than necessary) copper fin radiator to bleed off heat from the system, so the return water temps to the boiler should be low enough to allow condensing to occur.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

Tony_23

ODR ?

Is the HT set up for ODR, Joe ? If so, a condensing boiler will condense most of the season.

If the load isn't big enough, you may need a buffer tank or other form of hydraulic seperator to lengthen cycles.

Joe, what company are you with ?

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

My experience

with copper finned tube baseboard is that you don't get much heat output below 150° and for that reason, I'd go with a non-condensing boiler.

We've installed a few Baxi Lunas and they've been great. Bit of a learning curve and make sure you understand that there is 120v at the T-T connection. I heard somewhere that it may have changed, but not sure.

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Joe_58

The HT's can be setup for ODR if you purchase the optional outdoor sensor. If the baseboard is oversized and you can use a lower water temp, you can increase the amount of time the boiler will condense in the shoulder seasons. In my area, outdoor design is around -10F, so a standard high temp. system using an outdoor reset curve will only condense at around 40F and higher. This point of condensation will increase in outdoor temp. as the outdoor design temp increases. This is, of course, provided that the system design temperature stays at a constant temperature in the conparison. That is a very short period for us, so an estimated amount of savings vs. the extra cost of a condensing boiler is a comparison best left up to the end user.

Now, if you are able to drop your design temperature to 160, (I believe that European boilers are soon going to 159F from 167F maximum) your boiler will be condensing almost year round with the correct outdoor reset curve. In that case, a condensing boiler is a good fit. I would recommend making sure that the boiler has a modulating venter because that will give you the same efficiency at every point of burner modulation, instead or high efficiency at low fire or high fire. The Baxi HT does have the modulating venter, as do many other modulating boilers. It’s just something to look for in comparisons.

Eric_25

Baxi

Is the outdoor sensor a standard 10k sensor

Steve Goldstein_2

sensor

I don't know. He said that the outdoor sensor came with the boiler, and wasn't an accessory/option.