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CO Poisoning

Mark Hunt
Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
in THE MAIN WALL
> says (on page 13, <BR>
> Maintaining/Testing..):<BR>
> <BR>
> ...and to ensure that <BR>
> your sensor will maintain its _b__i_full_/i__/b_ <BR>
> life, it is recommendeded that you:<BR>
> <BR>
> etc, <BR>
> etc<BR>
> <BR>
> The word "full" (emphasis above is mine) <BR>
> is on a small sticker, covering some other words <BR>
> I can't make out ("6 year" maybe?). It doesn't <BR>
> say 6 years anywhere.<BR>
> <BR>
> So should I expect 5/6 <BR>
> yrs out of this detector?<BR>
> <BR>
> Tom <BR>
<BR>


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Comments

  • EB
    EB Member Posts: 1
    CO Poisoning

    http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/02/07/news/state/58-monoxide-poisoning.txt

    I live approximately 40 miles from where these folks were poisoned and thought the above article was important to be seen.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    That is sad


    I posted a story about this on the Carbon Monoxide thread when the baby was still alive.

    Here is a hyper-link to EB's story.

    Mark H

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  • FredR
    FredR Member Posts: 62
    Sensor Life

    Mark, I have followed the CO threads and as a result purchased the NSI Low Level Alarm. After reading the technical information it appears that the sensor life is 2 years. Does this infer that the detector has a useful life of only 2 years?
    I will contact the supplier tomorrow but thought I would ask you in the meantime.
    If this is the case, this looks like it will be a very hard sell, in order to have the user spend that considerable amount every 2 years. I understand, that compared to the loss of lives that the cost is negligible, however still a hard sell IMO.
    Am I correct in thinking that alarm levels were increased to 70 PPM in the standard alarms in order to eliminate false alarms?
    Thanks Fred
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Hi Fred


    Page 13 of the instruction manual for the NSI low level alarm states that the sensor has a 6 year life expectancy. Most alarm manufacturers give a 5 year expectancy on the sensor. REMEMBER!!! This is from date of manufacture NOT purchase.

    UL-2034 was not designed to eliminate "false alarms". It just says that the sensors DO NOT have to be sensitive. It never addressed the garbage sensors themselves. The ones that would go off if mom over did it on the hair spray. No. They only addressed the sensitivity of the alarm. Once the sensitivity was adjusted, 70ppm became "the danger zone". At 69.9999ppm, we're safe, no alarm. Add that .0001ppm of CO and now we're in trouble. UL 2034 says we are allowed to be poisoned at 70ppm for "up to 240 minutes".
    I feel better! The only thing that caused "false alarms" were crappy CO alarms. So UL lowered the bar and the crappy CO alarms were suddenly good CO alarms.

    Now here is how UL-2034 is dangerous.

    Look at the warnings that are printed in the owners manual for just about every UL listed CO alarm. They clearly state that the product is:

    "designed to protect individuals from acute effects of carbon monoxide exposure. It will not fully safeguard individuals with specific medical conditions. If in doubt, consult a medical practitioner. Individuals with medical problems may consider using warning devices, which provide audible and visual signals for carbon monoxide concentrations."

    A few others actually mention children and the elderly in their warning, but I bet those warnings are NEVER read.

    No protection from chronic CO poisoning whatsoever. The thread you and I are posting on gives a PERFECT example of how suceptible even the unborn are to this poison.

    I am glad that you now have serious protection from CO in your home. Now tell me, what will you do if that alarm ever goes off? This is important.

    Mark H

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  • Tom S.
    Tom S. Member Posts: 94
    my NSI detector manual...

    says (on page 13, Maintaining/Testing..):

    ...and to ensure that your sensor will maintain its full life, it is recommendeded that you:

    etc, etc

    The word "full" (emphasis above is mine) is on a small sticker, covering some other words I can't make out ("6 year" maybe?). It doesn't say 6 years anywhere.

    So should I expect 5/6 yrs out of this detector?

    Tom
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    I am looking at the PDF on NCI's site


    as I type. It states, "...to ensure that your sensor will maintain its 6 year life". Sticker eh? Sounds like lawyer work to me.

    I would say 5 years, but I would test ANY CO alarm to make sure the sensor was still functional. That doesn't mean pushing the "test" button. I have CO in a can that I test CO alarms with.

    I'll call the folks at NCI tomorrow for a clarification on this Fred.(And I WILL get one)

    Now what about my question? If the alarm goes off, what will you do? I'm not trying to catch you here. I just want to know how you would react.

    Mark H



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  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,906
    yes they covered over 'six year life' with 'full life'

    (bought mine from sunset mechanical services in charlotte NC--very professional sales dept.) page 18 gives two yr limited warranty.

    yes I would feel cheated if the unit lasted less than 5-6 years. I have another of the UL ones 'First Alert'model for 5 years and it still works--plug-in unit--though of course it's not a sensitive model.

    now that I have the NSI I'd say maybe not worthwhile to put one in cellar--since CO rises what good would it do? I'm leaning to having one in upstairs bedroom and one on main floor. Problem is more units you have, less likely you are to maintain them I think. Got to make New Year's day the day to replace all batteries in smoke and CO detectors, etc.

    I have to believe these threads on the Wall are going to save at least one life this year if they haven't already.

    Thanks,

    David

    PS Hey these nsi models are so portable. How about bringing one in your car for a ride and see if you get any readings. Wouldn't any leak in the exhaust line be a potential hazard?
  • Tom S.
    Tom S. Member Posts: 94
    A CO detector in my car...

    would scare the heck out of me if it went off while I was driving. Not that I don't want to know that there is a CO problem, but perhaps not with the 85db alarm....

    Tom
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,906
    good point--perhaps better just while idling in driveway

  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    CO alarms in the basement


    Bad idea unless you sleep in the basement.

    Put it near your bedroom, I want you to wake up if there is a problem. You would probably never hear it if it was in the basement.

    You are correct about the portability of these units. Bring it with you when you travel. Hotels DO NOT have CO alarms!

    I will find out about the sensor life, you can COUNT on that.

    Mark H

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  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998
    But

    could you drive through the downtown of any major city without it going off??
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,906
    probably want to temporarily take out battery before putting

    in travel bag--could make for an interesting airport experience if it went off at baggage check time.

    as for driving through urban areas, that would be an interesting experiment though you might have to remain stationary in one location to be accurate; and hold it next to your open window to take one's own car out of the equation.

    as for the noise, the sound hole can be temporarily plugged up for that kind of experiment, though obviously NEVER otherwise.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Yup


    You would be in for a suprise. Stuck in traffic? You're getting dosed.

    You got kids on a school bus? Guess what!? They get dosed EVERY DAY!

    Are there CO alarms in schools? Are CO alarms mandated in schools?

    Mark H

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  • FredR
    FredR Member Posts: 62
    Sensor Life

    Mark ,thanks for responding. To answer your question. My family and any visitors will be evacuated first and then I will evaluate the alarm level. Any and all appropiate measures will be taken. ie: 911,utility co.

    1-page 17 of the manual says. Sensor Life:2 Years Elsewhere it states 6 years???
    2-The manual appears to be poorly presented. There are duplicate pages with the same information,conflicting and ambigouis. Two #6,two#7,two#12,two#13 pages
    More than likely the literature was printed in China and no proofreading done by the distributor.
    IMO they should reprint and send corrected manuals to those who have purchased this detector.
    One more thing, the warning labels that are provided and suggested to be placed adjacent to the detector will more than likely never be placed as suggested. Why? Because I cannot imagine any wife (head of household LOL) accepting it stuck on her wall.

    You are doing a great thing with your efforts in educating us in this matter. I purchased mine because of you.
    Thanks again Fred
  • Jim Davis_3
    Jim Davis_3 Member Posts: 578


    Fact the alarm down and it will muffle the noise. Running into a tree would startle you even more if you become drowsy from CO.

    There is a misprint in the NSI Manual- 2-year warranty, 5-6 year expected sensor life. Easily tested with the smoke of a match and a plastic bag. Unit senses its electronics and if it senses a failure it will say Err on screen.
  • Dan_15
    Dan_15 Member Posts: 388


    One of the great things about the NSI 3000 is that it is initially calibrated with actual CO, and can be periodically tested with actual CO. The manual suggests using a match to test the integrity of sensor. Im sure that digital instruments will produce more accurate test results, but at least the match test should give you an indication if the sensor is on its way out. As the fleet of NSI 3000 detectors out there grows older, it has to be hard for NCI to control if resellers are selling stale detectors. I suspect the time limit in the manual was stickered so that people dont automatically make the assumption that their new detector has a life of 5-6 years, and to underscore the point that sensors must be tested periodically.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Thanks Fred


    I called NCI this morning and spoke to Scott. He is looking into the issue, but I see Jim Davis has responded below and states that there was a misprint. Sensor life expectancy is 6 years, warranty on the unit for 2 years.

    Mark H

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