leaking Dunkirk boiler

Jeff_66

Thanks for the tips - boy do I hope that lady luck is shining. Can I take the cover off the boiler myself to see where the water is coming from or do I need a professional?

Jeff_66

leaking Dunkirk boiler

Hi,

We've been losing water from our Dunkirk D247-400S boiler. I tried overfilling and some water did leak on the floor.

1. The boiler is only about 4-5 years old - should there be a warranty that covers this? The boiler was purchased by the former owner but we know the company that installed it.

2. Either way, is it possible to replace the kettle without replacing the entire boiler?!

3. We don't have any leaks in the system that we know of - what could cause such quick deterioration?
Thanks for your help!

Charles G.

SOL

Good news/bad news--mostly bad news. The boiler warranty per Dunkirk aka ECR International states the boiler sections are warranteed for 10 years in a residential application (1 or 2 flat bldg)to the original owner. Exclusions abound: materials and labor to R&R sections, transportation back to ECR, improper burner adjustments, control settings, care or maintenance. Also, contaminated combustion air or funky water conditions will ruin your day.
The good news? Someone's getting a new boiler for Christmas. Or is that still part of the bad news?

Cunner_2

Water

Jeff,
Are you on a well? if, so I would check PH levels and also take a look at the Chlorides, I've been seeing here on the Wall lately " Chlorides " have become the new Buzz word on steam boilers. Do a search, I think Glenn Stanton had a post a few weeks ago that was on that topic.

C

Gene_3

take the jacket off

and see where the leak is, it could a fitting or plug, if lady luck is shining

if you do find a spot of rot do not scrape or poke it, that will only make it worse, the dirt IS holding it together

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Jeff_66

ph

Hi,

No - we're not on a well. I checked the ph level about 2 years ago and it was not abnornal (according to the kit I bought at Lowes). That's why I can't believe this boiler is shot after only 4 years. I'm still hoping that there is something I can do to repair it!
Thanks again.

DanHolohan

Jeff,

do you have an automatic feeder on the boiler?

Jeff_66

yes. We noticed that it was turning on more often this year.

DanHolohan

Are there any pipes

that go under the floor or through walls?

Sheila

auto-fill

Jeff's wife here - it has been filling every day, sometimes twice a day for the last few weeks (thus alerting us that there was a problem).

Jeff_66

There are no pipes under the floors but they do go up through some walls to reach the radiators in the living space.

Charles G.

Auto-fill

So the next question will be whether or not you have any underground returns. It sounds from the original posting the leak is above the water line. Sometimes things just happen...

DanHolohan

Do you find

air vents leaking steam? Especially the ones in your basement, near the ends of the steam mains?

Jeff_66

I discovered the leak above the water line when I overfilled the boiler last night. I'm just trying to figure out how this could happen on a boiler that's only 4 years old (just my bad luck, huh?). Is there any way to replace or temporarily repair the damaged part or are we stuck buying an entire new boiler this soon?

My other concern is how we would keep this from happening all over again.
Thanks.

DanHolohan

When water boils

it releases oxygen, and the more fresh water there is, the more oxygen there is being released. That causes the iron to rust out, and always at a point at or just above the waterline. If you put a water meter on the feeder (or use the Hydrolevel feeder, which has a built-in meter for this purpose), I think you're going to see that you're taking on a lot of water. And that tells me there's a leak somewhere in the system. Someone will need to find the leaks or the new boiler will suffer the same fate.

Jeff_66

not that I've noticed. I replaced one of them last spring because it was too small but I haven't noticed any steam at all and have not heard any hissing.

Jeff_66

Do you agree with Cunner's thought (above) that it could be a fitting or is that wishful thinking? Should I try taking off the jacket to see?

DanHolohan

Worth a look

but I think that a fitting would have leaked from the first day on.

Jeff_66

one other thing

Thanks for all your advice. Any idea how long we have to make the decision (we're weighing the pros and cons of trying to switch to hot water heat but we'd prefer not to make that decision before the holidays). Do we have any time at all or is this boiler going to crash and burn right away?
Thanks again.

DanHolohan

Who can say?

It has a hole in it and it's leaking. You know Murphy's Law?

Jeff_66

The hole is above the water line - does that buy us any time (potentially). Sorry for the repeated questions - just fishing for something to be optimistic about.

JOHN_103

leaking dunkirk

> Thanks for the tips - boy do I hope that lady

> luck is shining. Can I take the cover off the

> boiler myself to see where the water is coming

> from or do I need a professional?



every dunkirk leaker i've come across was leaking at the top of the sections (empire steam boilers)mostly between the two back sections. pull the flue pipe add water up too the top of boiler then check good luck

Jeff_66

I'll check as soon as I get home tonight. Is there anything I can do about it if that's the case (other than replacing the whole darn boiler)?

DanHolohan

What's dangerous

is that all that water is going into your chimney, and that can cause the chimney to fail. The result could be carbon monoxide in your house.

Sheila

incorrect installation of dunkirk???

Hi all,

We still don't know exactly where the leak is but we had an HVAC guy come out and take a look at the system. He said that the boiler was not installed correctly according to Dunkirk instructions and that the installation could have caused any premature corrosion. He said it was a problem that the steam outputs go into the steam cross header and then there is a T in the middle of the cross header that will cause the two sides of steam to "collide." Does this make sense to anyone? I'm attaching pictures of the piping for feedback. We've got another guy coming out to look at it tomorrow. Thanks in advance!

Unknown

yeap

The boiler is piped very wrong. The steam is crashing head-on before getting into the system... The 45 els may not be enough swing joint action, therefore, causing boiler to expanded between sections. Sorry for the bad news, make sure the boiler is being replaced by a BOILER company. I'm not a big fan of Dunkirk company...

Sheila

what now?

I know this forum is heatinghelp and not legalhelp, but does anyone know if we have any legal or other recourse to have the installing company eat the cost of this? They installed it for the previous owner about 2 years before we bought the house (we've been there for 3 years). We know the Dunkirk warranty is non-transferrable and they wouldn't cover damage that was caused by faulty installation anyway.

Gene_3

best advice

Call Dunkirk and see if they will send a rep out and ask very nicely if they would appear in court. Tell them your situation { you, not your husband, people tend to have soft hearts toward women} and that you understand they are not liable, you just want verification from the factory, they made the boiler and only they could say in a court that it was installed wrong and not be questioned by an attorney. It would hold more water than one expert against another, also the installation manual for that boiler would provide concrete evidence.

best of luck

still take the jacket off, you may not get it all off but enough to see, it's only a few screws, if you decide to add sealer for now you have to raise the water line up to that leak for it to work

I'd reccomend a Weil McLain boiler with a new Carlin EZGas burner, your present unit has an atmospheric burner which is wide open to cool down on off cycle--50's technology, very inefficient, prone to high CO, I do not like them

peter desens

Dunkrik factory representative

I'm afraid there is little assistance we can offer. To truly diagnose the failure beyond a reaasonable degree of speculation at this point, particularly for use in a legal forum, would take considerable effort, and an unbias party.

Peter Desens
ECR International - Dunkirk Boilers

DanHolohan

I'm a fan.

If you look up top on this page you'll see all the support that ECR gives to make the Wall possible. I appreciate that. They're good people, and they've been in business for a very long time. Must be doing something right.

ttekushan_3

piping

The piping is wrong, yes. But if I had a dime for everytime I've seen this incorrect use of a "T" I'd have, ahhhh... A bunch of dimes. I've never seen it cause a boiler leak. The 45's out of the boiler are probably enough swing, seems to me.

But looking at the extreme rusty mess at the lwco blow off, I'm thinking water trouble.

Does anyone (past and present) ever blow down the sill-cock on the bottom of the boiler (on the left side)? That much rust at the low water cutoff indicates a lot of mud at the bottom is being deposited there, an area of little turbulence. Excessive muck at the bottom will overheat the bottom portion of the sections creating stresses elsewhere.

These kinds of problems affect ANY boiler.

Gene_3

excellent points

one thing I hadn't considered ..... has the boiler been properly maintained since installation, their attorney and the court will want to see documentation of said maintainence including possible water tests, etc etc etc

but in most states this would fall into small claims court which you and them tell your story and a judge decides who he believes more, if that's the case you may prevail

did you take the cover off yet??

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have replaced sections on those boilers before and they are available. But if you fix the leaker how long will it last. You need to find the reason for the failure 5 years is not an old boiler. It is possible that it was just a bad section but I like some of the other posters suspect leaks and other water problems.

ED

Jeff_66

which model

Gene,

Do you know which Weil-McLain model has the ez gas burner? We need a 300,000 BTU gas fired steam boiler and are very interested in high efficiency.

BTW, the cover finally did come off and there are leaks in 2 of 5 sections and they aren't patchable. Thanks.