non ferrous low loss header

Weezbo

i discombloomerated my temporary heat lash up and made a kinda cool low loss header and burned in a couple of the Flute ideas on a pitched header *~/:) then lashed some Viessmann Vitolas up to that :) mellowed the copper with some 260 F wet heat ..the flute idea works pretty good:) no sound of or sight of air anywhere.

i am beginning to wonder if i missed The Article that you mentioned Siggy was writing...i have been working long hours and am basically clueless at to what day of the week it is usually..did i miss the article? did you say it was coming out this month or last:(? sorry....me tired.

hr

In a weak moment

I did a large shop radiant with non barrier tube. I wanted 3/4 and none was avaiable locally in a tewo day window.

So now I am reading the job for the Prestige boiler install.

I got a home equity loan and purchased some type K 3" copper and T-drilled this piece. A perforated dip tube to stir the flow and capture air.

I'll installa 4 channel HOBO to see the temperatures at the various ports. I have an ice cold 6000 foot slab to put the device to a good test.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

hr

In a weak moment

I did a large shop radiant with non barrier tube. I needed 3/4 and none was avaiable locally in a two day window.

So now I am finishing the job with a Prestige boiler installation.

I got a home equity loan!! and purchased some type K, 3" copper and T-drilled this piece. A perforated dip tube to stir the flow and capture air.

I'll install a 4 channel HOBO to record the temperatures at the various ports. I have an ice cold 6000 foot slab to put the device to a good test.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad White_154

Hot Rod

Why not?

Cannot wait to see how she works. The cold slab and HOBO makes for a fantastic test bed. What intervals will you measure to?

If you had to manufacture this, would the cost be competitive with the steel bottles?

I like the Magic Flute dip tube too.

Brad

J.C.A._3

A pastor, a priest and Rabbi walk into a bar.....

And Hot Rod has to figure a way for them all to work together....and does.

Thinking outside the box,to be sure.

I see the reasoning, but have to ask...Who or What made you have to do this, or made you have to think this ?

Darn, I understand the thoughts........but why are the answers so clear and the homemade pieces so perfect?

I need more time to think and less time fixing. H.R is my hero!. Chris

hr

Sample rate

every 60 seconds to start.

This could be affordable if copper didn't cost $37 per foot

I suppose type L or even M would be sufficient. I happened to find a mech. contractor that had a short piece of K.

I suspect parts for this could be under 100 bucks. I'll silver solder it so that will take some time and materials.

You're seeing this as I build it tonight.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad White_154

Sample Rate

60 Seconds is what I was thinking too, you do not want to miss those spikes. Same for materials, $100 was a gut-check. I like the simplicity of it.

We just oversaw some plumbing replacement in an elementary school. 60 feet of 4-inch copper, 30 feet of 3-inch and 160 feet of 2-inch. Ouch. The scrap and overage? A miracle how closely they estimated that job... where is it?

Couderay

Please pardon my ignorance but would it be possible to explainhow the header works as you have it. I guess what I'm after is the 6 inlets/outlets. I can comprehend the 4 on the sides but the 2 on the ends is where I'm stumped. I was wanting to build the same type for my system and would there be any benefits on a p/s instead of the closely spaced tee's. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. P.S. have tee puller ready to build

Weezbo

i will tell you the answer if you have a 2 foot pieece of 6\"

*~/:)

Weezbo

nice *~/:)

And it is energy star rated excellent.

it has all the ear marks of good ole ingenuity in the face of rising material costs

there is some split shell insulation....it goes to Way large.. three four ever increasing sizes ,some of that cool colour stuff you showed us a while ago.....and or tape the insulation and spray paint it with some Rhino Hide bed liner...cut it longitudinally...screw some chrome buckle clasps ... small copper inlay ...:)

Brad White_9

Joe, if I may

And not to step on Hot Rod's toes, the LLH has only four flow ports as conventionally they would.

The top and bottom ports are vent and drain respectively. The top vent may also accomodate a sensor if Hot Rod deems it worthy


Got Copper? King Midas lost out on that one.

Cheers!

Brad

hr

My goal

it to provide the benefits of P/S but add air separation, a debris settle port, and I hope it will allow cool return to the mod con boiler than P/S provides. The bottom return ports are straight across from on another, the top stagger and have the perf tube interfering the flow.

I want less blending, but stillthe hydraulics to get along.

I want the boiler circ to not mess with the secondary, hydraulicly spreaking, yet return the coolest flow directly to the boiler.

I hope the data logger will tell me how well it actually works.

Caleffi makes a nice steel version along these lines, but I needed all non ferrous.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

ALH_4

non-ferrous

Looks good. It will be interesting to see what your findings are.

The LLH that Radiant Engineering is producing is all 304 Stainless and may have fit the bill in an application like this also. I originally determined the pricing, and I was surprised how competitive RE could be with the big manufacturers and include features others do not.

Plumdog_2

Copper header

I built one out of leftover 3" DWV and a bunch of very expensive copper tees. I angled the tees so the branches could be hung right on the wall, but with room underneath for the Exp tank. Not cost effective but a good way to get rid of leftover copper parts.

hr

Another copper LLH concept

this one has some threaded ports to add temperature gauges. Also a stainless mesh inside for some micro bubble grabbing. As seen by the SeeSnake

I'd like to see what you devised. Show up a pic.

Any chance you might make it to the Foothills Conference in Edmonton, Alberta April 19-20? That's about as close to your home as I will be in the near future. Siggy, Bean, and a bunch of top notch Canadian wet folks will present some new and exciting hydronic seminars.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Paul Pollets

Inlets and Outlets

Aren't the outlets supposed to be 1" to 2" closer together than the boiler supply inlets? I'm told that this is to prevent direct flow from primary to secondary circuit.

Good idea, but pricey....

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Couderay

L.L.H.

Any results on LLH installed. What size, do you think, on an P/S 1 1/4" main would be best.(Manifold O.D. not the branches) Is there a difference if one wanted to mount horizontal as opposed to vertical. Would replacing closely spaced tees with a LLH help,and in what ways.

hr

design criteria

From what I gather the cylinder should be 3 times the diameter of the branches. The branches would be sized to the gpm flow like any other piping, or a P/S system.

If you system requires 12-18 gpm I would select 1-1/4.

Hydraulicly it would work on it's side, but you would losethe air elimination and dirt settlement features.

Paul, I have not heard or seen the reason to space the connections differently. The wide cylinder space prevents straight thru flow from what I know, and have observed.

Actually in my mod con installs I would like the coldest return stream to cross right thru to the boiler without ANY mixing. This could in fact happen if both A and B side flows were exact, I suppose.

A large gate valve between the upper and lower half might be fun to experiment with if load and boiler matched.

There is a formula for determining the "mixed" temperatures based on the input side flow rate and temperature, as well as the output side. Just as one would do with a P/S piping set up.

I agree buying an off the shelf Caleffi would les $$ than a custom made copper, considering copper cost and labor. I needed a non ferrous one to connect to some non barrier tube in a slab. Building my own was cheaper than a separationHX and additional pumps and controls.

We are all comfortable with the principles and use of P/S piping by now. These separators are just another means of providing that hydraulic separation in a cleaner, multi purposed, easily installed "package."

They are ideal for use with high pressure drop HXers commonly found on many mod con boilers on the market.

hot rod



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"