Once and for all

Unknown

A great message!!!

Mark Hunt

It has to stop



All of this "V" vs "B" vs "WM" vs "fill in the blank".

Fact is that it doesn't matter WHICH heat generator a customer chooses. If the Pro they choose knows what they are doing, they will get a MUCH better system than what they had. Any arguments on that?

For those concerned with the environment...Is it better to buy any mod/con or an atmospheric boiler?

For those concerned with our dependency on foreign fuels, is it better to buy any mod/con or an atmospheric boiler?

Or is there only one mod/con?

Perhaps it would be better if our industry promoted itself to the REAL world rather than fighting amongst itself??

But what do I know? I'm a sucker for a cool hat and a coffee mug.

Mark H

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Josh_10

Point taken and agreed. And what a good point. I Think we should spend our time arguing hydronic vs. scorched air.

Al Corelli_2

There is no argument there.

Hydronics is superior.

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S Ebels

May I submit...

Before I hit the sack.....

There's nothing wrong with a HO coming here and asking that type of question. They don't flat out know......one contractor is saying this and the other guy they talked to is saying something else. So after lurking here and reading what people are saying, they decide to ask for an opinion and seek the collective wisdom of the Wall. Remember that buying a boiler is a BIG DEAL and 95% of the homeowners that ask don't have a clue as to what constitutes "good" or "bad". Stainless steel is stainless steel, right?....... NO?..... If not, why not.

You and I work with this stuff every day and even WE wind up installing products that we wish we hadn't ever laid eyes on after living with the results for a couple of years.

So I think asking for a comparison or posing a "what do you think" question is a valid use of this site. I think the free exchange of information is what Dan had in mind in the first place.


Now.......that being said. I don't appreciate it when someone comes on here, be they mnfr's reps, contractors, or end users, and starts being really condescending toward someone elses product. I also don't appreciate it when claims are made that can't be substantiated or are based on hearsay. Just the facts please.....

In my mind the more info that can be gathered or provided, the better informed we all are. Both Contractors and Ho's alike can benefit from info shared freely but WITHOUT BIAS. That's a tall order when a person has a favorite product that they are really pumped up about.

I'm probably just as guilty as the next guy of honking the horn for the products I like and have had good experience with. But hey, I think the average visitor here can sort through the hyperbole and reach a logical conclusion. They're smart, that's why they came and asked the question in the first place. They want answers and we should all try to provide them objectively as possible.


Now....THAT being said, I couldn't agree more with your statement that the contractor is THE MOST IMPORTANT LINK IN THE CHAIN. As has been said a thousand times before; It's better to have a mediocre boiler installed correctly than the top of the line done poorly. If there's anything we as a group can convey to those folks asking these questions, it has to be that point.

Mark Hunt

HO's need to know


but do we have to vilify the products we do not use?

Are the demeaning analogies necessary? Kia vs. BMW?

I recall a post from a person that works for a particular boiler company, when asked about THEIR mod/con he replied, "We're a cast iron company". Well.........today they have a mod/con on the market.

"The times they are a changin'"

There is a scene in the movie "This is Spinal Tap" where the intrviewer is talking to the guitarist and the guitarist points out that his amp goes to "eleven", while all the rest stop at "Ten". His is "one more powerful".

Does that really matter in the big picture?

No.

Isn't it time that the hydronics industry start promoting HYDRONICS? Not this boiler or that boiler. Just "Hydronics".

FWIW, I sold another FHA to HWBB system today. I sell hydronics, NOT boilers.

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

HO's need to know


but do we have to vilify the products we do not use?

Are the demeaning analogies necessary? Kia vs. BMW?

I recall a post from a person that works for a particular boiler company, when asked about THEIR mod/con he replied, "We're a cast iron company". Well.........today they have a mod/con on the market.

"The times they are a changin'"

There is a scene in the movie "This is Spinal Tap" where the intrviewer is talking to the guitarist and the guitarist points out that his amp goes to "eleven", while all the rest stop at "Ten". His is "one more powerful".

Does that really matter in the big picture?

No.

Isn't it time that the hydronics industry start promoting HYDRONICS? Not this boiler or that boiler. Just "Hydronics".



Mark H

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hr

It's the nature of the beast

New folks arrive at his site on a daily basis. The arrive hear via the name "Heating Help.com" Some come out of frustration and want to rant on their problematic equipment.

The task of the pros on the site is to show the frustrated "guest" that most often it is not the manufactures intent to put out equipment that fails:)

I doubt we can turn off the complaints, or that we should. but we could be more politically correct in not getting on the "bash wagon"

More often than not we get to the bottom of the problem by combining our knowledge and experiences.

hot rod

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Xc8p2dC_2

Homeowner point of view

Agree with Mark. I came here over a year ago doing research for a replacment gas boiler. Look at "all" the pros and cons of the current ModCon models in the running. many prof opinions where sometimes, somewhat leading, but in the END, it was "I" who decided [thanks to all the great input fom the Prof's here] which would be the best for "my" situation

Happy to say, greatly enjoying my "best value for the dollar" WM Ultra and if it happens to be "not as benificial, as my research lead me", I would blame only myself. I am glad to be a $ supporter of this site

D107

A Good install AND info exchange both vital

As a homeowner I want to know about installer's problems with particular boilers, and so do other installers and hopefully the manufacturer's reps. Installers are really doing free research for the manufacturers, are they not? And if they can report their problems without bias or venom it's a service to all of us. All of us should be on the same side--trying to make systems better.

Of course we should all understand that many installers vent their frustration here with equipment problems that occur or having to correct dangerously bad installs, and that's also valuable. There's a difference between justifiable anger and vindictive nastiness. I've seen the Wall act as a referee between legitimately disgruntled contractors and product reps. The Wall creates an upward pressure towards improvement. (I do wish all reps would identify themselves as such --many do but many don't. That's misleading.)

Bottom line, this site promotes good heating in general and hydronics in particular. Hopefully that 6% hydronics market share can be pushed up little by little.

And I'd rather have a re-furbished 1925 converted coal boiler put in by a top pro or ghosts of dead men than a state of the art mod-con by a less than first class installer.

Thanks,

David

John R. Hall

YOUR name is most important

I visited with one of the winners of our "Best Contractor to Work For" last week. Everything he sells has his brand name on the product -- not any manufacturer's. His customers have grown to trust his name above anyone else's including the leading brand names in the HVAC business.

"Brand" encompasses everything you do for your customer. A product that is rated lower than another can operate just as well if it is installed and serviced by a quality contractor.

The Boiler Dr.

SO right!!

The colour of the curtains has no bearing on how well they work
BUT the quality of the installation sure makes it easier to see the results!
JMHO

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ALH_4

I like that idea

Brand the system instead of the components. After all, it's not a Burnham system. It's an XYZ Contractor system.