Steam generated electricity

Couderay

Can any one here comment as to what would it take to make steam generated electricity for a house. Is there any boiler/generator out there that can,with out putting a working man in the poor house. Worked at a county jail where all there feed pumps and supply pumps to the system were steam driven. There steam generators were made right after W.W. II. We took them out and replaced em with variable speed pumps. To much money and very hard to find parts as most of the parts needed had to be machined,hence the change out.

Brad White_156

Higher pressure than you probably want to generate...

The turbines are rated for a certain flow and pressure, often in the hundreds if not thousands of pounds. Most small cogeneration plants use steam in the range of 100-150 PSIG. Some, such as at Dartmouth College, use 460 PSIG steam. Major utilities often use steam in the range of 2,200 to 2,800 PSIG superheated steam.

At least here in MA, it takes a fireman's (stationary engineer's) license and someone on duty 24/7 if you run any boiler over 15 PSIG and over 9 Boiler HP...

Personally, Joe, I would find another hobby and fast!

Still, a shame to retire those beauties.

Couderay

Could have had them (6) total just didn't know what to do with em.

Brad White_156

Two Words

E-Bay

Perry_2

It can be done... IF...

you are perhaps a US Navy Machinist Mate - or Boiler Tech, and have your own machine shop, a place to build the plant, and say live in coal country. There is pleanty of used or surplus equipment available that could work (and even within the 15 PSI limit mentioned - although I would like to get up to 50 or 75 PSI to run a certain kind of turbine).

But, if you had the background you would not be asking.

Realistically - the sytems require proper maintenance by someone who knows what they are doing. I could do it - but I want to use my free time doing other things instead of tending a steam plant and generator set.

I know of others who have the background to do it as well - and they don't do it.

What are we saving: Perhaps several hundred dollars a year... Get real; our time is worth something. Besides, a single part needed for rebuilding the equipment could easily cost much more than that.

I guess that answers your question. The people who have the background to operate and maintain such a system are not doing it. The chances of someone without that background doing it anything close to economically are zip.

As far as commercial power plants. I went from a US Navy steam propulsion engine room - to engineering college - to power plants. They have entire staffs (often several hundred people) operating and maintaining a single boiler and turbine-generator set, not counting the extra hundreds of contractors who work on things during planned maintenance shutdowns.

In fossil fueled plants steam pressures can run up to 4200 PSI and superheated steam temperatures up to 1100 F (where the steam lines glow dull red).

Nuclear power plants often operate at 800 - 1000 PSI and usually use saturated steam in the range of 500 - 550 F. They tend to have large staffs in comparison to fossil fueled plants (and the pay is really good in comparison). For clarification: I have worked at 3 fossil power plants, for a field service company supporting power plants, and now work in a nuclear plant. All that after 5 years of US Navy steam propulsion where I learned how to operate and maintain a system such as you are proposing.

Perry

Couderay

Yes Perry I hear you screaming. I'm sure you forgot more than I know. I too have worked in the nukes and a few coal burning facilities. In the past 15 years most of my work as a journeyman pipefitter has been steam related.Just last month I started running A job installing 4 Babcock Wilcox boilers in the 80k lbs.per hour range. A 27,000 man hour job on the mechanicals alone. My question as stated above was, or is, there anyone out there working on a steam generated power plant capable of generating power for an average household. A boiler(small)making steam, driving an engine, turning a generator

Perry_2

I wasn't screaming - but I think the answer to your restated

question is no. There is no economic reason for someone to be working on such an item for sale to the public.

Why would they. Steam equipment requires a lot of maintenance and tending. What would you use as a heat sink to condense steam back to water. Air? very inefficient - and a large costly unit. If you were going to use water to condense the steam - you would need a water source - and a DNR (or equivelent) discharge permit. A once through system (like the old trains) is really inefficient - and would scale up the boiler unless you were really big into water treatment - which has to be constantly tended - not to mention the chemical waste disposal issues. A steam boiler by itself is a several thousand dollar item. Steam turbines are not cheap either - of any size due to the blading cost. Condensers, controls, valves, etc. Lots of cost.

Diesels are much more reliable - fuel efficient - and easier to maintain. Cheaper too. You can buy an industrial diesel generator set from a dozen conmpanies.

But, unless you live a long way from the grid it would not be cost effective.

Tony_23

There are

CoGen units that produce 5kw and 20kbtuh hot water (I think the 3's are right), coming.

You could install steam heat in your house, then lash up a Stirling engine as an "extra". You might need more than one though

Bob D._2

Steam Generated Electricity

Look at it a little differently - Skip the steam generation, use the fuel (NG or meth. or ?) as direct input to a fuel cell, along the lines of MTI's micro-thingy (residential/small commercial equiv. ratings), and get electricity and DHW out. There are a couple of outfits knocking on the door of commercial viability, and already running pilot tests. I think you can buy one for about $14K, FOB. Pipe it up, wire it in, and go crack a brew, no moving parts. BTW - Ret. Navy, nuke & fossil, Mech. Engin. degree after retirement, now P.E.; troubleshoot mostly HPS plants.

Aidan (UK)

Steam Generated Electricity

Look at it a little differently - Skip the steam generation.....

Absolutely; steam was the preferred method of transferring heat around in the days before we had cheap electric motors and pumps and whilst there was a regular supply of ex-navy boiler technicians.

It's inherently inefficient; the heat losses from a pipe network at steam temperatures will be more than those at LTHW temperatures. Steam pressures also bring you into a whole new area of insurance inspection and testing regimes and insurance premiums. Most steam heating systems have been replaced with LTHW, it only remains where there's a process requirement, e.g., hospitals.

CHP is the way to go if you want electricity; these are domestic systems, but the electric output isn't very big.

http://www.baxi-senertec.co.uk/

Industrial CHP usually uses an engine driving an alternator. The heat is a useful by-product usec for heating.