new boiler with \"bangin\" problem

Unknown

as I couldn`t seem to get-out, my skills are very limited on one of these! Anyway,,,,,,back to the pics! BTW- Thanks for the Email AJ.

[Deleted User]

new boiler with \"banging\" problem

Hello all...

First time posting here.

I'm a homeowner and I just had my steam boiler replaced with a brandy new Lennox GSB8-112E. Bought Dan's "We Got Steam Heat!" book and it was a tremendous help when looking for a contractor to do the work.

One problem we're having... the boiler makes a "banging" sound about 15 - 45 seconds after it shuts off. I videotaped the problem and it can be seen (& heard) here:

My apologies to those with a dial-up Internet connection... the video is a bit large and may take a few minutes to download if you don't have high-speed Internet.

Any ideas what might be causing this problem? The contractor has been out 3 separate times to look at this problem and it's still not fixed. I'm hoping they get Lennox involved at this point. (if not, I may call Lennox directly)

We're also having some surging problems, but I'll post that one separately.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Sincerely,

AJ

Big Ed_3

cool

I like the video...

The water level looks too low.. Where does the return and equalizer come in...From the water line...

Boiler water needs to be flushed and skimmed ......

Is the boiler a Utica ? Why did you take the side tap ?

Unknown

AJ,

That`s quite a video!! your very talented with one of these!
Anyway,,,,,,,I heard-it, it sounds almost like some kind of "light-metal" maybe a baffle of some kind moving because the firing is stopped. Sort-of like "popping-back" into place. In my opinion this is a problem in the manufacture of the unit. I`d really like to know what Lennox will say!

Steamhead (in transit)

That bang

scared Lucky the cat right out of my lap!

Your boiler was made by Dunkirk and is similar to their Plymouth steam unit, so those of us who install that brand will be familiar with it. The little bit of piping I can see is OK (this boiler only has side tappings, Big Ed). Can you post a few more pics of the rest of the piping around the boiler? I think we may find the answer there.

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[Deleted User]

more pics momentarily

All-

Thanks for the quick responses... it's GREATLY appreciated.

When you say the boiler is made by Dunkirk, does that mean Dunkirk is the Original Equiment Manufacturer and then Lennox slaps their name on it? I'm from the computer field, so we always refer to the people who made it as the OEM, not sure if that holds in the heating field as well.

More pictures in about 10 minutes... I just snapped about 6 and I'm making the gallery right now.

aj

[Deleted User]

\"banging boiler\" photos

All-

Here are some photos. Click any of them to be brought to a gallery where you can get a much closer look.

[Deleted User]

\"banging boiler\" photos

All-

Here are some photos. Click any of them to be brought to a gallery where you can get a much closer look.

[Deleted User]

\"banging boiler\" photos

All-

Here are some photos. Click any of them to be brought to a gallery where you can get a much closer look. (click the size you want to see under the "Other Sizes" section under each photo)

Note: the "O" photo size in the gallery is very large may take a minute or two to download depending upon your connection speed.

I also posted the piping diagram from the manual:


Let me know if you need any other photos.

I hope these help.

Thanks again,

AJ

p.s. - sorry for scaring the cat... these photos are certified feline friendly.

Unknown

AJ,,,,,,

A guy could get lost in here, it looks like you`ve got your whole photo album showing!

[Deleted User]

dave... too much information maybe?

Dave-

You think there's too much information w/ the pictures in the post? I can always take them out.

aj

Unknown

That`s OK,

we`ll only look at the boiler ones, LOL! I wonder how your coming Frank? Are you still "mulling-over" the roof?, or checking out the weddings?. I can`t stop kidding!

Steamhead (in transit)

Naaah, I have my own series of roof pics

which also show us lifting the roof deck to put insulation in places you can't get to any other way. Also my favorite wedding pics are from when I married The Lovely Naoko. As nice as other wedding pics may be (and certainly are in this case) they just aren't the same....

But now that I see the piping diagram, I do see one problem: The header piping is 2-inch where it should be a minimum of 2-1/2-inch. Not sure if this relates to the banging, but it is probably sending water into the system with the steam.

I'd make that header 3-inch. It doesn't cost that much more than 2-1/2-inch.

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Unknown

AJ,,,

I had to re-start again, maybe it`s just too much for my "old-box", anyway I concur with Frank(Steamhead),as to the pipe-sizing, but the noise does not sound to me, like a "steaming" problem, so to speak. I was just starting a closer look, then my computer problems started.

Jim Farrell

Boiler Bang...

If you have the Lost Art of Steam Book...Read and Follow Chapter 16...It tell you how to clean all boiler manufactures boilers as well as using UGL "MEX" or you can use TSP to clean this dirty boiler...
# 1)...Look at the color of the water in the gauge glass
# 2)...Is water coming over the top of the gauge glass???
# 3)...I didn't look to see if there was a skim tapping...
If there is not...Use the skim tapping and have the contracotr put a nipple in it then a tee looking up then a valve then another nipple and a fitting that brings ou down to a hose connection...

The nipple looking up allows you to see the dirt, muck and crap coming off the boiler whil e skimming...If you add MEX or TSP follow the directions in either Dan's Lost Art of Steam or on the actual carton...Make sure a professional is doing this...If you are them I am sorry for second guessing your ability...Cleaning the boiler with Mex or TSP will really clean the boiler totally...Do not let the boiler steam or allow any of thecleaning products to go out to the system...If you do it will give you problems you do not want to have like cleaning a 50, 60 year old system...no one want that on their hands...Please e-mail me if you have any questions...

Jim F.

Mark Hunt

I saw that too Frank but


that doesn't sound like a "bang" so much as it sounds like the vent damper spinning shut. Like it is getting hung up and then spins free.

The water in the boiler is absolutely filthy and the boiler needs a good scrubbing, but that didn't sound like a "steam" bang to me.

Any thoughts?

Mark H

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Steamhead (in transit)

Never heard a damper do that

but it's sure worth a look! AJ?

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ttekushan_3

Hartford loop too high.

Looking at the photos, the hartford loop short nipple connection is just above center of the boiler. Looking at the other side, the water level is below that.

The bang very shortly after shut off is a classic sign that the hartford connection is somewhat high. Even an inch or so lower might solve it.

Lower it so the top of the return into the equalizer is just below the minimum safe water line. I guarantee the bang will disappear.

Oh. And what everyone else has said: clean-clean-clean.

-Terry

P.S. If its not too high, and that minimum permissible water level sticker on the side of the boiler's lying, then where is the low water cutoff action?

Regardless, the hartford connection must be emmersed to prevent this problem. A plunging water line complicates things. Double check LWCO wiring.

bob_50

AJ

I agree with Mark's assesment of the sound. Try removing the screws in the flue pipe at the connection to the vent damper and see if that doesn't stop the bang. bob

Big Ed_3

Bang

Sounds too loud for a domestic vent damper to me . But I been wrong before...Seeing if the noise is coming from the smoke pipe will tell you for sure.... If not...... I would clean up the water first and take it from there. Needs to be done any way . Call back the installer , thats his job.

[Deleted User]

thanks for all the responses

Everyone,

Thanks again for all of the ideas. You've done an excellent job educating me... a new homeowner who was very intimidated by this system before coming across this website.

I forgot to mention that the installer thinks the banging sound is coming from the bottom of the boiler, near where the gas line comes enters. (but I'll double-check tonight to make sure it's not coming from the flue damper)

I placed a call with the installer last night. When they come out, it sounds like I need to have them check/do the following:

• height of the Hartford loop
  
• skim the boiler again
  
• diameter of header piping
  

Thanks again everyone... you've been a tremendous help and I will give you an update once I have more information to share with you.

AJ

ttekushan_3

and one more thing

dawned on me, well, at dawn:

The hartford might be marginal, but this condition is a good barometer of water contamination, specifically oils on the water surface.

Telltale: Is the return piping leading to the hartford extremely hot? It should be cool to warm with return water. But not steam hot.

Sounds like the whole water line is lifting, spilling boiling water backward into the return, and creating a low pressure pocket (or steam pocket) just inside the boiler's return inlet. The water line's probably sloped upward from there towards the steam outlet. I'll bet the return piping cools immediately after the bang. When it shuts down, steam condenses in one big bang very low in the boiler. Also explains why low water cutoff doesn't shut off right away--the water line's tilted in that direction.

Want any more theories? I'm just about out of plausible ones, but they do tend to get more interesting from here...

-Terry

peter desens

Lennox steam boiler

AJ,

Sorry for the delay in posting a response. If you have yet to resolve this, please have your Lennox dealer contact me at my office. I'm sure between the two of us we can isolate the problem and correct it.

Peter Desens
Technical Service Manager
ECR International - Dunkirk Boilers
315-797-1310
1-800-325-5479 ext. 4128