Problems with Gravity HW System and New Weil Mclain Boiler

Floyd_25

Go here...

http://www.weil-mclain.com/FTP/Ultra%20310/UltraBoilerManual.pdf

Look on page 15 as was said before....

figures 7 and 12 are both pumps and both are REQUIRED for proper operation of that boiler...there are NO other options!!!
AND they must be placed as shown....you can beat your head against the wall till the cows come home, but you'll never make it work right till you follow the insturctions to the T.

Floyd

Matt Allen

Problems with Gravity Boiler System and New Weil Mclain Boiler

I have some experience sweating copper so I somehow got recruited to help my neighbor install his new boiler. However, I did a lot of research before starting.

The system used to be gravity fed with a 3.5" and 2' outlets and 4 returns. At some point a B and G circ. pump was added to the return line.

The house is on 3 floors and approximately 5550 ft2. We ran heating calcs and came up with a requirement of 275000 btu. We then chose a Weil Mclain ultra 310. All the near boiler piping is 1.25" copper with a bypass loop at the boiler per man. recommendations. We read that gravity systems usually need a pump with high flow and lower head. We chose a B and G series 100.

Now the problem!

We can't set the outlet temp higher than 130 degress. If it is set any higher the system goes in to "soft shutdown" because the return temp and outlet temp difference is too high. The troubleshooting guide says the flow might be too low.

Did we chose the wrong circ. pump? Any other ideas? If you do think it is a pump problem can I add another series 100 to help (we accidentally bought 2).

Thanks for any help!

Matt

Unknown

Matt,

Can you post any pics, so we can see exactly what`s there?

Al Letellier_9

Ultra problems

275MBH...that's a lot of BTU's. Are you sure your numbers are correct. That's got to be a huge house. A soft lockout can occur if the temp rises too fast across the boiler. What kind of piping arrangement did you use? If your piping sizes are not correct and the boiler pump (the one that came with the boiler) has a higher head that the system, you could be short circuiting. Need more info or pics as mentioned in the other post.

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Floyd

1 pump???

from what I see you saying you only have 1 pump in the system.... you absotively posilutely HAVE to have 1 pump to circ. water through the boiler and 1 pump to run the water through the rads....

Floyd

Wayne_10

Doesn't that boiler come with a 009 taco cir?

Matt Allen

It actually comes with a taco 011 but we actually found it as an "out of box", never installed unit that was w/o the pump.

Matt Allen

It is a huge 100 year old house with 50 windows, 9 doors, 4 french doors, 11 ft. ceilings etc.

Matt Allen

Ill get some up today if my friend sends them to me.

Glenn Harrison_2

I hate to say this, but...

You kind of need to start over with that system.

First of all, you need two pumps and need primary/secondary piping, not a bypass, to insure proper flow thru the boiler heat exchanger. The pump for the boiler is supposed to be a Taco 0014 or equivalent. Also, on the 310 the piping should be increased to 1 1/2" right out of the boiler. Where is the relief valve that should be right on the boiler supply pipe.

You really need to get the Ultra manuals and check out pages 14 thru 16 of the installation manual for proper piping schematics to have this unit running properly. These schematics also show every component you should have and it's proper location for the system to work.

Also, please check out the following link, written by fellow Wallie, Steamhead about sizing pumps for gravity conversion systems. You will see that high flow is not really the way to go.

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=125

http://www.weil-mclain.com/FTP/Ultra 310/UltraBoilerManual.pdf

Todd_15

Pumps

You need the pump the boiler comes with, Taco 0011 to flow the heat exchanger, and the other to flow the radiators.

You should use an air scoop/spiro venting system also. You will have alot of air in a reworked system like that.

Floyd_25

Look at these...

Didn't do this boiler... but a friend sent them to me....
he helped his son do this boiler and had asked me for advice before they tackled the job. They did well for a father/son team on a weekend mission...
As you can see here, there is a boiler pump, to pump water just through the boiler and another pump to circulate through the rads.
The way you have it there, will not work...

Floyd

David Sutton_6

Matt

Please take the picture out of your post, hit edit on your post and take the check mark out of the box,
thank you its too big,


i would listen to Floyd about the piping, you need to start over and use the 0011 and a flow check for pri/sec piping

David

Matt Allen

The fill valve and relief valve are shown on picture 2. We already added and air seperator at the T shown on boiler picture 2. (It had not yet arrived when we initially started on the piping.)

We have the manuals and did everything per those pages except for the type of pump. The manual says the system is not designed for 2 pumps and another was not shown on the diagrams. (probably due to electrical concerns at the terminals provided)

Todd_15

what manual

Are you looking at??? They do show a pump flowing down through the boiler.
There are many ways to pipe the "house piping" side of the system. Some choose multiple zone pumps with relays and some use zone valves with a single "system" pump & relay. In your case you will need another pump relay for the B&G pump. Put the OO11 on the boiler and tie that in to the heat pump side.
The relief valve that you show is not what came with the boiler nor is it piped in per the directions.

Jim Farrell

Weil-McLain

Look in the W/M Installation Manual Page 15 The Supply and Return must be connected together no more than 12" center to center...This is to ensure proper flow thru boiler...

If confused contact Weil-Mclain Tech Services 219-879-6561

Matt Allen

We're starting over

We're going to start over and move the series 100 down to circulate the boiler and at the taco 011 to circulate the system. We are going to a the primary loop and the secondary loop and change to 1 1/2" copper.

Should I get the taco pump with the flow check?

Thanks for all the help from everybody that replied.

old oil man

Matt,

Put the 0011 on the boiler loop, This is reccommended by the manufacturer to over come the flow resistance designed into the boiler.

old oil man

primary secondary piping

Matt

I should have mentioned - Dan has a great book on Primary Secondary piping at his on line store. Check it out, explains what you are up against very nicely.