Prestige Proposal

Uni R_2

Fun? I'm in pure panic mode as I watch my un-refillable oil tanks drain as the new gas meter sits idle beside the house it needs to connect.

Got a minute to read this? ;-)


I was aiming for Aug/Sep (I was away much of Sept and Oct) and the whole Ultra installer search put me so far behind. I got that quote (except the venting wasn't at all practical), 2 Viessmann quotes and one quote on a Prestige. The Prestige guy seems okay and was suggested by the Triangle Tube rep. He was actually the only one that brought some pictures of installs. They do the majority of their work in black iron and they paint it and it doesn't look bad, but they all looked a bit pipe as you go - if you know what I mean - you'd never confuse their piping layouts with Clammy's!

As for the boiler, the return goes into the bottom of the HX and supply comes out the top. From the top, the supply goes across a down facing tee. On that tee is the boiler circ. It's a 15-58 set on a set speed and feeds the boiler secondary loop out the bottom in front of the DHW connection (as with most ModConds, the boiler is normally set up as the secondary feeding into the heating system as a primary with a compression tank, feed etc there). The rest of the path for the supply is out the bottom to get piped to a separate circ for DHW or up out the top to the AAV and PRV. Both the IDWH and boiler circs are pumping away from the top fitting of the boiler and that is why I was thinking of making that the PONPC.

I would like to make the boiler the primary circuit to give it a bit more volume. If I can add a few gallons to it, that along with the boiler holding almost 3 gallons might help reduce the chances of short cycling. This boiler modulates from 105 down to 30, but the heatloss is only around 60 and design temp for here is much colder than a typical winter day. A 5K add-on primary stage boiler would work so well in this application - if it existed! I would also like to take advantage of the return water from the primary circuit for doing the underfloor kitchen heating and a bit of additional floor warming in the bathrooms and have the option of turning it down if the math proves wrong. If the underfloor ends up needing a higher temp, I'll just leave the HWBB in the kitchen and do the underfloor as warming.

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Does the Sprirovent's direction matter? To me it's just a rotating basket in a cylinder - I never thought it mattered and haven't seen consistency of application in the many wonderful photos that appear here. Anyway, I wanted to have it upstream of the boiler circ but it could as easily be downstream. I was just thinking of those elongated bubbles on the suction side. It does look silly there, but I thought it was the last good spot on the suction side of life unless it is on the primary heating circuit and even then it's tough to place before the circ.

For the strainer, I need one valve on that pipe regardless so I figured the second one would facilitate removal of the wye, changing screens, pulling the basket etc. Is a blow down valve something to add to the wye, or do you buy the wye like that? The Neptune sounds nice, but this system is less than 30 years old and the water has looked perfectly dull any time it has been drained. A wye probably isn't even necessary, none of the 4 quotes included one, but I think that it would be prudent to have one, maybe even one one the primary heating circuit and one on the return from the indirect.

The 2nd tier emmitter (underfloor)... I'm not sure if I'll be using a mixing valve or a bypass. My calculated temperatures are so close between the fin tube and the underfloor that I am hoping that I shouldn't need the additional expense and complication of a mixing valve, but if I need one, that's where it will go. Who knows? Maybe that bypass will not even need to be opened. Can I assume, that if the main heating circuit is on constant circ and the boiler is following the outdoor reset curve that a simple bypass will keep it all proportional?

If everything is fine on this, I'll look at what the contractor is (or isn't) proposing as a piping layout and if I'm not comfortable with what they are proposing, I'd like to be able to offer this and clearly I'm willing to pay more for this. Obviously at that stage we'd also need to run it by Triangle Tube because we'd be making the boiler a primary circuit instead a secondary circuit and that is not their default best practices for piping. The Vito isn't ruled out, but the Prestige doesn't seem at all to be a bad boiler - I wish it weren't so oversized, but hey... 12 months of the year it's a water heater and it's nicely sized for that! ;-)

This system will be visible in a general purpose / training room, so I want it looking good without looking tacky. Maybe I should get an old pickup truck and pimp that up instead and get all the piping installed in the crawlspace where it won't be seen rather than allowing it to be influenced by all the wonderful installs here such as yours? ;-)

Sorry for being so long winded and many thanks Brad, I really appreciate the feedback that both you and Tim have offered.

Uni R_2

Does this look okay?

I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this piping layout? It would be for a Prestige Solo. Obviously this is not according to the manual because the boiler is being made the primary loop instead of feeding closely spaced tees on the heating loop. In addition the take off point for the expansion tank and feed are atop the boiler to facilitate it pumping away when either heating with the built-in circ or producing DHW when using the external circ.

I want the secondary heating circuit to use the water from the primary and also have some form of mixing. This will be used later for some underfloor heating.

I'm trying to keep the domestic connections as short as possible but leave lots of exposed piping on the heating side so that I have a nice warm corner in the basement with standing iron! ;-)

The corner is about 5' by 5'.

tim smith

Prestige pipe layout

As far as i can tell from drawing it looks ok, came through a little broken for me. Cool drawing program, what program is this. Tim.

Uni R_2

Tim

It's drawn with Visio.

Brad White_9

Uni

Red is supply I assume here, and blue is return? Sort of obvious but just checking. I do not know the specific Prestige Solo requirements so will keep my comments as generic.

First, I would install the Spirovent in the supply not the return and have the vent pointing in direction of flow. Not sure if it makes a difference, but there is a flow arrow on the unit so they must have a reason.

The return strainer with two isolation valves is good if you plan on pulling the basket but a blow-down valve will clean it pretty well too. It will also act as a purge point with the second valve closed as well as a low-point drain for the heating circuit.

Is this connected to an old system with a lot of crud protection? If you are concerned and want better protection, a Neptune filter feeder is a good thing. Not cheap compared to a wye strainer though.

Your second-tier emitter circuit- You will be using a mixing valve versus just a bypass may I assume?

I like the drawing and the "fold here" line. Seems you are having fun!

Brad

tim smith

Thanks for the reply

Wayco Wayne_2

I like the drawing.

I have piped the Prestige like you have drawn on occaision and it works fine. I'm loving the reliability of the Prestige as compared to other mod cons that have given me nuisance callbacks. So far it's been a dream come true. WW

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Uni R_2

WW...

How do you find it handles small loads in regards to short cycling? Also, how do you find the noise levels compared to other wall hung boilers?