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Uponor HCT III

bobbyg_2
bobbyg_2 Member Posts: 139
Anyone going to Uponor's HCT III on November 30? I'll be there.

Comments

  • agm
    agm Member Posts: 1
    uponor htc 3 training

    what is the uponor hct 3 training?


  • I paid to go to a Uponor two day training here in Mass a couple weeks ago. After the entire first day was going through their product catalog page by page, rather than actually learning radiant I was pretty upset.

    Near the end of the first day the instructor started to briefly go over near boiler piping, but this self proclaimed engineer thought that we didnt need to know the gpm and water temp formulas (probably because he couldnt remember them) in order to properly design and install a radiant system.

    Ive been spoiled by Dans courses where he actually gives you the formulas and treats you like an adult with some education.

    I was thouroughly unimpressed with the course and did not go back the second day. After paying for the course, and lost wages for a day, I wasnt about to lose another days wages on this guy.

    I went to the scheminar with a helper that I hire on installs, and after the class on the drive home we counted five major times that he contradicted himself oin major issues.

    Uponor has a great product, but this guy sucked.

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  • Floyd
    Floyd Member Posts: 429
    Norm...

    Go out to Apple Valley....you will be challenged to the max...head will be reeling with the amount of info you will get. AND chances are that you will get it for JB one of the best in the bus. at keeping you engaged and entertained, while filling your head with much USEFULL knowledge...
    Don't let one bad pea spoil the whole pot...

    floyd
  • bobbyg_2
    bobbyg_2 Member Posts: 139


    It's the third level of training at the factory. Part of their "Home Comfort Team" partnership. I believe the training will cover advanced controls?

    I look forward to going, I haven't been to the factory since 2000.


  • I am sure at the factory they have great training.

    I guess what we hit on is one of my big pet peeves. Most training that you can find now only covers products, not concepts.

    The information provided in these classes is there, provided you can dig it out of all the spin.

    Thats why I love training done by people other than manufacturers. Dan Holohan, John Siegenthaler, etc,.. They cover concepts and applications rather than product lines.

    Id love to hear from the people that get back from this upcoming training at the factory and get their feedback.





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  • Dave Holdorf_2
    Dave Holdorf_2 Member Posts: 30
    Mass Training

    Norm-

    I'm sorry you did not get enough out of the class I presented a couple of weeks ago. We try very hard to satisfy the attendees of every class, but sometimes it is very difficult to satisfy all of the people all of the time. It is my job to spread the word of the installation of radiant floor heating and also the products of the company I work for.

    I apologize the content was not challenging enough for you. I followed the syllabus that we arranged to make sure that I don’t go past the knowledge of the majority of the people attending the class.

    If there is anything I can do to make this up to you, please do not hesitate to contact me. The majority of my time with Uponor is spent discussing, teaching, and troubleshooting systems. If you have some questions, please contact me. If there are contradictions that I made, please let me know. I do not claim to know everything and always willing to learn. I try to keep an open class and ask everyone to ask questions to make sure you get the information you need and want to know in the short time we have together.

    It seems like the information you desired was covered in the second day of training where a third of the day was spent on designing RFH.

    There is a difference to what we (Uponor) can cover in training classes whether in the field or back at our training facility in Minnesota. At Minicamp, we can spend a lot more time in detail to learn the ins and outs of RFH, the field training is only a condensed version. If you would like to get some info for our Minicamp classes, either contact me directly, our website www.uponor-usa.com, your local Uponor distributor or local representative.

    Sincerely,

    Dave Holdorf

    Uponor Northeast Field Technician
  • John Barba_2
    John Barba_2 Member Posts: 92
    Brother in arms...

    Gotta give some kudo's to my man, Dave Holdorf. Dave's been around the business for over a decade, knows his stuff and does have an engineering degree. He's pinch hit for me many times, and does an outstanding job training.

    As he pointed out, field training programs are often a crapshoot, and you wind up putting together a program that will hopefully appeal to your audience...and that program will feature concepts, products and the applications of those products so that everyone leaves with something they can start using the very next day.

    Norm, I'm sorry the program didn't meet your needs. I'll echo Dave's sentiment -- what can we do to make it right for you?

    Sincerely,

    John Barba

    HMFOT
    Uponor
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,451
    I

    Went to a 2 day(1/2 days)class given by Dave Holdorf this summer at Wales-Darby and I thought he did a good job given the time constraints and wide skill level among attendees. Was it the best class I've ever been to? No. But very far from the worst.It piqued my interest enough to go out to MN this coming summer and consider switching to Wirsbo(Sorry Dave,Uponor) from Viega. Sorry you had a bad experience but why don't you consider going out to MN in the summer when the demands of work aren't so great and you're not under so much pressure?

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  • bobbyg_2
    bobbyg_2 Member Posts: 139


    Norm,
    I too have walked away from "training" dissapointed. I also know that it is impossible to please everyone because of the different levels of knowledge in the audience.

    What I do know is ask the person putting together this training what his/her agenda is. I will then ask more specifically what will be covered to figure out whether or not it is worth my time. Most cases a field-factory deal will be basic stuff.

    1. My point is this, look past the hype of training recruiting efforts. From that perspective, it is hard to get people to go to training so hype is probably needed to get people to go and learn, even the basics.

    2. Put the effort in to evaluate whether or not it is worth your time. You may find yourself reading more books, going further to go to Siggy's training ,etc.

    I will be happy to let you know my thoughts on the upcoming training after I return.
  • Tim Doran_3
    Tim Doran_3 Member Posts: 1
    I'm with JB

    Dave is very knowledeable and capable, I consider him to be one of the most dedicated professionals in our industry. You have the right to express your views but I hope that you at least gave him the courtesy of a phone call to express your disappointment before you blasted him in a public forum.

    Tim D.


  • Thanks for responding Dave. I Made sure not to mention anyone by name in my postings, but its impressive the amount of class shown by responding, thank you.

    Other posters have said the mini-camp is so intensive your head will spin. That is what I was expecting, and I think (as other posters have pointed out) it may have been an unrealistic expectation for the course given the varying degree of participants, and the inability for instructors to know who they are teaching.

    The not giving the formulas thing really irked me though. Granted I have them from many of the hydronic heating books on my bookshelf, I was more upset for the other students that may not have them. I think that is a critical design element if you want an efficient, and properly installed system. Not giving the formulas is just asking for unsatisfied radiant homeowners.

    I suppose I was a little extra irked because the uponor two day training fell on the same two days that Buderus had their HELP seminar that I was really looking forward to also. (Now that will wait till January)

    Perhaps during my slow season I will take a trip out to the factory. (Although you describe it as watching paint dry, I would love to see pex being made)



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  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    I didn't know

    That you could use suck and Uponor training in the same sentence? I was blown away in Minnesota, will never forget it as long as I live. You get out what you put in...

    Rick

    JB, where's JB's greatest hits? Long live the MTB
  • John Barba_2
    John Barba_2 Member Posts: 92
    Asleep At The Wheel...

    ..is a great band, and also describes me when it comes to your GH CD. I put one together on I-Tunes, but found the stuff you buy from I-Tunes doesn't copy to CD, so I have to reevaluate. Soon, my friend, very soon.

    JMB

    HMFOT, Uponor
  • jim lockard
    jim lockard Member Posts: 1,059
    norm

    Go to Apple valley, factory school is great and you will have a fun time. J.Lockard
  • Floyd
    Floyd Member Posts: 429
    No way....

    if you make a sep. playlist of what you want to burn I think that it gives you the option to burn that playlist to CD... would have to open I-tunes and check the exact process, but I have burned plenty to CD from I-tunes...

    Waiting with baited breath for the "official" JB GH CD

    Floyd
  • John Barba_2
    John Barba_2 Member Posts: 92
    I-Tunes...

    The playlist and songs copies to I-Tunes from CD burn okay, just not the songs purchased from I-Tunes. Unless I'm doing something wrong. Which is always a good bet...

    JMB
This discussion has been closed.