For All Steam Heads

Jason_19

Greetings, my question might not be much of a challenge for most who are experienced in the lost "art" of steam heating. My name is Jason, I am 25. Been doing plumbing and heating 5 yrs in NYC and take it very seriously!
I've reciently stumbled upon a steam issue at my girlfriends parents house where steam is not reaching 2 of 15 radiators in system. System is supplied by a gas fired boiler(which I'm sure dont matter), and know air vents are both in new working condition. I am sure its a clog in each branch on seperate sides and floors in house.
I'm unsure how i shall attack this situation due to my general knowledge in the P&H field. I believe the only causes can be from collapsed/backpitched branch supply creating unwanted condensate trap or pipe/fitting has corroded/scaled a seal.
I think, i should either blow the line out back to boiler w/air compressor or adapt air vent tapping to hose and flush out. I'm sure flushing is best for system as long as there is nothing rotted out where water pressure would blow through line and leak through ceiling, like i said its my girlfriends house so i have to be most professoinal!
So w/all that in mind, maybe air is my best bet. unfortunitly I'm also aware how that can cause a slight leak unknown in system wasting precious btu's and/or creating damage behind walls and in ceilings.
Thank You for your time, i look forward to hearing and learning from all that want to pass-on their knowledge. Reguards, J. Barca

Unknown

Rad

Jason, I would doubt this line is clogged with corrosion. If there was a renovation done before, or the rad was changed, then the pitch of the underfloor piping may have been changed for the worse and created a "water-trapping" issue, but I doubt that too. I wouldn`t try blowing-in air, or anything else as if you do "stir anything-up"(and you will), it`ll wind up somewhere else in the system. Anyway, where are these non-heating rads located?, are they near the end of the main? It kinda sounds to me(even though you think not), you have an air venting prob. Try to get back with some more info, and we`ll take-it from there.

Jason_19

First thing i did was replace each of 2 unheated rads air vents with varivalves. i blew into old vents and they were both open/ok but left vari's in anyway. the house is over 200 years old, not sure when system was installed and dont think there has been any reno's. family has no knowledge of rads working since they have owned, about 10 yrs now. all risers and branches are in walls and floors, unseen. troubled rads are on 1st floor rear rightside, and 2nd floor front rightside. boiler is located front left basement. im aware flushing system would stir things up but if i close all rad valves and blow out from rad everything should wash back to boiler where it could be drained clean no?? Thank You, Jason

Unknown

Well I,,,,,,,,,,

Would NOT do that. You`ll make even more trouble for yourself. #1)Are you SURE the hand valve is open?(sometimes they can fool ya.) #2)Are these rads furthest from the boiler? (try to trace the main in the basement if you can.) #3)If you can and it turns-out these rads are farthest away, try to see if there`s an air vent on it anywhere, (the main I mean.) If your SURE the hand valve is working, and it`s all the way open, (as a test) try running the two problem rads with the vents removed, and see if you get steam then. But remember, this would only be a test!

Jason_19

hand valves are definitley open. they are not the furthest from boiler. basement is finished, no access to main. no steam from rad tappings w/air vents removed.

Tim Gardner

Just to be sure,

the first thing I would do would be to disconnect the radiator and see if any steam came out the pipe with the radiator off.

Jason_19

rads were disconnected and pressure was raised to 10 psi for testing and still nothing. with rads off i can see hand valve is 100% open as well. any more suggestions? what if it were a clog in line, what should i do? Thanks, Jason

Unknown

Jason,,,,,,,,

I`m running out of ideas myself here. I wonder,,,,,,, you say your future in-laws(maybe), have never had heat from these rads since they lived there?, or was there a little? I wonder how long ago this ceiling was put-up? what I`m trying to get-at is, maybe there are valves up there, that got covered-up while in the off position?

Unknown

I can`t see-it,

being a clog in the line, they have to be disconnected somewhere.

gerry gill

there are times

when you just have to open a ceiling and replace a pipe that is sagged..how level is the floor..bet its sagged a bit in 200 years..it only has to sag the diameter of the pipe..

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Unknown

Gerry wouldn`t

10 PSI of pressure push that out? Even if there was a "sag" which I agree is possible, he would not have been able to even get to that pressure.

Jason_19

i dont believe any valves would be installed in system other than at rad but if you have seen this done before i will consider it a possibility. in that case i must find and open which wont be easy cause nothing is exposed.
if sag or backpitch has occured trapping water in line which is very possible, i must find and correct. this too involves opening plaster coated walls and ceilings just to have a look.
but what if line has corroded/clogged shut? would this not be simplest, cleanist scenerio to deal with? and how can this be resolved if flushing it out is not recommended? Thanks, Jason

Unknown

Well Jason,

Even though I`m adamantly against-it, you do have the rad disconnected anyway. You can try putting a little air pressure down the pipe from the top(where the valve was), but not too much, use a guage on your compressor and try to get some pressure if you can. Remember, it`s not like a plumbing fixture drain pipe, so it wouldn`t be plugged right-off. PS- Be sure the boiler is shut-off too!

gerry gill

don't know.

i'd have to see the job,and the pipes..all speculation from here.

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gerry gill

well, how about this

take the radiator valve off..pour water down the pipe with a pitcher..does it back up? if not i dought its plugged.

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Unknown

That`s a good,

test Gerry, I like that better than the air. Have you ever seen a steam pipe "clog" completely like he`s asking? I never have, like I said, I`m running-out of ideas for him to try. I still think its got to be disconnected or valved-off somewhere and got buried. You? One good thing is, if the water does not back-up, and it was disconnected somewhere, he`ll soon know where to start "choppin"!

Paul_58

How about....

closing the supply valves to the working rads and running the system. If the problem rads still don't heat, your hypothesis looks better, and you can probably rule out having too much connected radiation.

Jason_19

I think you guys gave me what I was looking for, great information I must try. the pitcher should determine if line is clogged or if water is trapped depending on wheather or not water backs-up. and if/where there is water i will have a percise start at where my problem should be with minimum water damage(Non-Pressure/hose). but if i get a back-up with no leaks, and its clogged, how should i clear it? should i then resort to flushing it out with direct-connect hose pressure back to boiler after making sure all rad hand valves are shut closed and relieving backwash from boiler drain? Thank You guys for all your help!

gerry gill

if it was plugged up

since the valve is removed just adapt the threads to a garden hose fitting and open the boilers drain valve and backflush..also examine the valve when you have it off..maybe the disc or disc guide fell off and went down the pipe..stranger things have happened.

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Unknown

Like I said,,,,,,,,,

before Jason, I am dead-set against this, but I`m sure your gonna try anyway. Take and do the "pitcher-thing" and see if the line fills up, when (and if) it does, see if it "holds there". Then try some air pressure to your water, be sure you have a guage on-it somewhere. I would not direct connect the hose or you may have inside the house "rain" all over the place! (If that happens, you can forget about ever marrying her!) LOL! Keep us all updated, this has really got our curiosity up! Take Care!

Jason_19

will definitly get back with an update, most-likely over weekend, hopefuly with good news! I appreciate all the help, enjoy the holiday! Jason