Condensing boilers in the U.K. (Dan H.)

DanHolohan

an interesting e-mail from a U.K. homeowner who told me that ALL new boilers installed in the U.K. must now be condensing.

John Ketterman

Those rules have been in place since October 2005.

But of course, you can buy a condensing boiler for under $1000 there:
[A] http://inspiredheating.co.uk/acatalog/Potterton_Suprima_HE_Boilers.html
[/A]

John Ketterman

Those rules have been in place since April 2005.

But anyone can buy a condensing boiler (just the boiler) for about $1000 there:
http://inspiredheating.co.uk/acatalog/Potterton_Suprima_HE_Boilers.html

and even a Buderus is only slightly more money:
http://inspiredheating.co.uk/acatalog/BUDERUS_600_REGULAR_RANGE_CONDENSING_BOILERS.html

I realize that installation labor is most of the final cost. Still, why are condensing boilers significantly more expensive in the US?

DanHolohan

Perhaps

economies of scale?

bob_46

Pitkin county

colorado requires 92% or better.

Uni R_2

Marketing

>> Still, why are condensing boilers significantly more expensive in the US?

Like Dan said, ecomies of scale but even more so you have to keep in mind that the wall hung market over here is still a developing market and we're still way behind. Until the market matures, the prices will remain high. We have to remember that in Europe a large percentage of new boilers will hang in almost the exact same spot as the old one, even if they changed brands. We are still just putting in the first generation of wall hung boilers in homes.

That's the major regret I have with most of the manufacturers selling to the North American market. They aren't preparing for the inevitable. These will become appliances and their life spans will be shorter than the cast iron carrier anchors that we are used to.

As appliances, they should have certain form factor considerations to facilitate easy changeouts. The European models tend to all coaxially vent from roughly the same spot (Kudos to the Burnham Freedom for the venting!) and this can be seen on the Baxi and Vitodens. Who knows, maybe coaxial venting was designed to allow sealed combustion boilers to be installed where there was just a simple vent hole before? They all tend to have their connections on the bottom with the return to the right side and the gas in the middle. I would guess their swap out costs are much cheaper as well since the new unit vents through the old hole and the piping justs needs a small adjustment in the vertical rise to connect to the boiler.

Andy Byrnes

All new installations have to be band A or B rated boilers. Both are condensing but band A been the most efficient. Band B tend to be similar to your common boiler but with a recuperate in the flue duct system that extracts the heat in the flue.

There are exemptions to this. They have created a points system where if the position of a condensing boiler is impossible than an ordinary boiler( Band D ) can be fit.
If the boiler has to be moved because the flue is directly over the boundary of the neighbouring property so many points are awarded. If it’s difficult to run the condensate again points are awarded.

We have flats with internal flue systems ( SE ducts ) again the are exempt.

But this is only in England and Wales but I think Scotland will follow suite soon.
Manufacturers are now at last producing high quality reliable condensing boilers but probably because the market has demanded it.

Andy B.

Paul Pollets

Euro vs US costs

Some reasons for increased costs for Euro boilers:

1. The boilers must be converted from 240v 50Hz to 110v 60Hz. Not to mention metric to US fitting conversions. This costs $$

2. The value of the US dollar against the Euro

3. Shipping costs from Europe to the US

4. Technical support and training costs

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Last time I looked they had a broader range of sizes (smaller) available as well.

Equipment cost is definitely lower than in the US (as Dan said, like economics of scale and lower shipping costs), but installation is like quite expensive. UK plumbers make quite good money--believe £100,000 is around average. Considering their piping connections, a good chunk of that pay may go to psychiatrists, beer or liquor...

Weezbo

*~/:)

Solarstar

AS quoted in 2005

Andy Byrnes

I wish we earned £100,000 in the UK .In the north around yorkshire the average wage of our repair men is about £25,000 to £30,000. In London you could expect to earn more but the price of property is stupid.

Andy B.

J.C.A._3

Thanks Andy !

Just goes to show that plumbers and heating techs are THOUGHT to CHARGE too much...but most isn't really going into their (OUR) pockets. I wish the customer understood that part. JMHO. Chris

Jed_2

Didn't read the links, but

Are the "boilers" sold in U.K. and Europe for these prices "H" stamped equivalent as classified boilers ( $$$ to get that in the U.S.), or water heaters? What added costs to market, sell, and install these "boilers" in the U.S. adds significantly to "value added" costs? After all, it's old hat in Europe, isn't it?

Jed

Weezbo

Andy , do you have time to tell us about CORGI and IPHE

and maybe what jumping through the hoops for a typical residential permit for an up grade to a condensing unit might entail?