burnham condensing boiler

Unknown

Lots of good questions about a very exciting product from Burnham and I will do my best to answer them all. But before I get started, I need to clarify that there are actually two Condensing Boilers coming your way from us. The first is the CHG floor mounted Modulating Condending boiler and coming very soon will be the Freedom wall hung Modulating Condensing boiler. The CHG units were initially introduced into the Mid-West and Western regions of the U.S. and have been received very well. They are now beginning to work their way into the New England and Mid-Atlantic distributors as we speak.

Both models are constructed of Cast Aluminum with the Freedom being of MonoBloc design and the CHG being sectional.The CHG is available now with a 150,000 btuh and 226,000 btuh model. The 150 model will have a 5:1 turndown ratio and 4:1 ratio on the larger model. Both models have a Honeywell MCBA based Control System with DC voltage variable speed Induced Draft Fans and Honeywell Negative Pressure Gas Valves.Efficiencies are ranging in the mid 90's depending on sizes.

The Freedom should be making its appearance in the market very shortly and will initally be a 120,000 btuh model with what I believe to be a 3:1 turndown ratio. A second mosel is still in the works but I am not certain of the capacity as of this moment. That is still in the testing stage. The Freedom will come with the ability to vent concentric sidewall right off the top of the boiler with Polypropylene high temperature piping. There will be an option of extending this distance if need be with either Stainless Steel or Polypropylene. The CHG models will need to be vented with Stainless Steel for reasons that I got into quite dramatically a couple of weeks ago.

Although it certainly took us a while to bring these products out, I think you folks will see that the waiting was worth it. These have been very well planned out for simple and dependable operation as well as extremely easy servicing.I can attest to that first hand as I spent most of the day this past Monday with my partner in training, Ron Beck, taking both of these models apart and reassembling them to develop a presentation on how to install and service them with hands-on pictures (in this case my hands ;>} ).

In answer to the question of whether these are made by Burnham, the answer is yes. These boilers have been an on going mutual engineering effort with one of our sister companies. We wanted to stay with dependable and time proven components and technology as well as to make servicing and troubleshooting them as easy as possible and I can attest that we have succeeded in accomplishing that. Both will need to pipe Primary-Secondary in most cases to maintain proper flow through the boiler and we will specify the pump size and piping requirements in the manuals.

Thanks once again for your interest and support. It has been an exciting year with the introduction of many, many new and exciting products with yet more to come in the next few months. I do want to stress though that the Freedom model is still in the production stage and will be available very shortly. The CHG models are available for order now. I have posted a couple of internal works photos of the CHG and Freedom boilers to give you an insde view. And yes those are my hands....wrinkles and all!


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Dan C.

chg

has anybody installed one. I had no idea that they even came out with one until today. Haven't heard anything about them.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Supply House Rick

Here it is...

looks sweet

Supply House Rick

Drum roll please

Here it is... Looks like another great product from an outstanding Boiler manufacturer!

Brad White_146

And then they asked

to those who know:

1) What is the turn-down ratio?

2) Are smaller sizes than 120 MBH input in the works? (Maybe a 50 MBH?

3) Application: P/S? Series?

4) Is there an internal circulator? Is it VS or constant speed?

5) What is the maximum outlet temperature? (I would assume no minimum).

It is great to see a fantastic American boiler manufacturer get into this market. It is along the lines of what has been asked for, with a little more information on the sheets.

Just wondering what the plans are for this next major Opus.

Al Corelli

Finally!!!

John Starcher_4

Does Burnham......

....make this? Or is it made by another company???

Starch

Supply House Rick

Brad please

Don't use the "O" word around Burnham people, it can be dangerous...

Ricl

Supply House Rick

double post

Kevin__Flynn

95% AFUE

Odd, while the color literature boasts 95% AFUE the input/output numbers would suggest otherwise???????????????


Kevin Flynn

Brad White_146

Good Catch Kevin

120 x 0.95 = 114 MBH output, not 107 MBH. Hard to get from 107 MBH (89%) combustion efficiency to 95% over time. Either a typographical error or something needs explanation.

Bob Forand

Crown

Crown introduced this product weeks ago.

Unknown

Brad and Kevin

It's not quite as simple as that! AFUE is not translated in the way you have shown. You are showing Combustion Efficiency of 95% not AFUE Efficiency. I'm not going to drag this one over the coals again nor get into a speech about AFUE. I just want to point out that your direct corralation isn't neccessarily accurate.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Unknown

Bob,

> Crown introduced this product weeks ago.



Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Unknown

Bob

As I stated in my post, we first introduced this boiler in the Western and Mid-West regions months ago.I also stated that this was developed in conjunction with one of our sister companies and yes....that happens to be Crown.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Cunner_2

GAMA

I see it is listed on the GAMA site as 95.2%

Rick_54

Glenn

Can you put me on the payroll, you know like viessmann does wink wink...
In the words of Borat "Nice"

Rick

Brad White_147

Respectfully

and if I am not mistaken, Glenn, AFUE tends to be less than the combustion efficiency. I for one have never seen a boiler with an AFUE higher than it's stated combustion efficiency.

Unless a founding initial efficiency is high, how can it be improved upon over a years' annualization? This is why I suspect a typographical error. Let it also be said, I am delighted to see a premier American manufacturer take this step.

And I do agree, AFUE is imperfect in many ways. But the core princple of increasing efficiency over net output escapes me. I am open to being educated -that is not a challenge to you or anyone. I just do not see it.

I am always happy to be corrected because that means I am learning something.

Cheers!

Brad

Unknown

Brad

I don't know for certain but I am suspecting that the AFUE ratings for the these types of boilers may be incorporating some different testing criteria than some of the other boilers. By this I mean that most boilers (cast iron) do not like to operate in condensing
mode and are tested at 140°F going out and 120°F coming back and if they can handle that well they get a good AFUE rating such as the Revolution. Normally the DOE Output rating in these cases would coincide with the Input times the AFUE efficiency rating.

In looking at the ratings for the Mod/Con boilers ratings and DOE Outputs, I am seeing lower DOE ratings than what would be expected with the AFUE ratings. My thinking with this is that the AFUE testing may be incorporating the range where Condensing boilers do not like to operate as well or 140°F out and 120°F back with little or no modulation or condensing occuring. This would explain the lower published DOE rating and would make sense in that it is taking into effect possible misapplications of these types of appliances. In otherwords this would be the worst that this type of boiler would do if misapplied while still getting a good average report card by modulating/condensing standards. Or possibly it is just a typo error in respect to the DOE ratings! I will look a bit further into this during the week and let you know.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Unknown

Followup for Brad

Got an answer from Engineering yesterday regarding the differences that seem to be apparent with AFUE ratings and DOE Outputs on the Condensing boilers. Apparently my thoughts were pretty much on track in that the testing for Mod/Con boilers is the same as regular boilers but different in other aspects. The AFUE testing is performed with 140°F Supply and 120°F Return but is based on low modulation where condensing is still occuring. This gives the appliance a reasonably fair AFUE rating based on it being a condensing type boiler and how it performs with cooler water at lower input rates.

The DOE Output rating for condensing boilers, however, is based on the boiler operating at high fire only as to simulate requirements for where these types of boilers do not like to operate or a possible misapplication in a high temperature system. That is why the DOE Output rating is lower than the normal Input x AFUE percentage rating. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Brad White_9

Thanks, Glenn

Yes it does explain a lot and satisfies the question. It also underscores the need for a different standard... but that is another thread entirely!

Your following up is testimony to Burnham's wisdom and good fortune in hiring you. Great service as always!

Cheers!

Brad