I'm so confused

Steamhead (in transit)

we have two of the best IMHO:

Matt "Mad Dog" Sweeney, Triple Crown P&H in Floral Park,

and Ron Jr., Meenan Oil.

Both these gentlemen will do a great job.

You can find their contact info on the Find a Professional page of this site.

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=367&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

Phil Simon

Everybody's Right????

I am looking into a new oil fired boiler for mom's house and my head is spinning from all the BS from the sales people. Had two of the bigger companies on Long Island come to the house and give their recommendations and estimates. Played it both the same way and told them we are looking for a company that could install the boiler and maintain it, would also buy oil from them. Looking long term and wanted the most efficient unit we could afford. Neither sales man measured the house,asked about insulation,or other upgrades to house. Both were told of a large addition that was added about 10 years ago. Both looked at the existing boiler and sized according to the plate on boiler.
When asked if the large addition mattered was told with a question " The house stayed warm with the original boiler didn't it?"
Both recommended cast iron boilers, one with a tankless coil and the other with an indirect water heater [currently use a seperate oil fired hot water heater]. Neither person recommended any kind of outdoor reset or other type of controlls.
They were both told of a possible chimney problem, single flue chimney that has boiler,hot water heater and a wood stove hooked up to it. Has been this way 35years but that might not be to code if new boiler is installed. Mom does not want to get rid of wood stove so did they have any solutions? First salesman said it was a major problem and said they could possibly use direct vent add on to boiler but thats not a good way to do things, they always have problems with those type of units. Second salesman did not know anything about direct vent but would send a "service engineer" out to look at job after signing contract and recieving a deposit. Did talk to another person over the phone and he said no problem ,so times in an older house thats the way things are set up and only have to worry about that in a new house.
I have tryed to educate myself in the past couple of weeks by reading "THE WALL" and I am by no means a newbie at mechanical things but I am now totally confused. Both salespeople would swear by what they sell and how they sell. From what I read here they seem to be doing a quick 1 size fits all type of approach with little or no regard to a corect sizing of boiler to house.
Here are a couple of questions;
1] Is it me, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?
2] Should the new boiler be sized according to the old one if the old one kept the house warm or by a heatloss?
3] Should I be looking for a seperate boiler installer as opposed to a company that handles the install,service and oil delivery?
4] The chimney--is it a big problem with so many items venting in to it, Can a new boiler be vented into it with the wood stove, does it make a difference since this was pre existing as opposed to new?
5] Do direct vent models work properly or are they a constant nightmare?
6]should the oil tank be replaced also, the tank is in the basement-275 gallons- but is at least 40 years old,how do you know when a tank should be replaced?
7] saw the ad on this site for System 2000, is it as good as it claims to be? Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge and insight in helping me sort thru all the salesmans claims of the "best".

Phil Simon

Everybody's Right????

I am looking into a new oil fired boiler for mom's house and my head is spinning from all the BS from the sales people. Had two of the bigger companies on Long Island come to the house and give their recommendations and estimates. Played it both the same way and told them we are looking for a company that could install the boiler and maintain it, would also buy oil from them. Looking long term and wanted the most efficient unit we could afford. Neither sales man measured the house,asked about insulation,or other upgrades to house. Both were told of a large addition that was added about 10 years ago. Both looked at the existing boiler and sized according to the plate on boiler.

When asked if the large addition mattered was told with a question " The house stayed warm with the original boiler didn't it?"
Both recommended cast iron boilers, one with a tankless coil and the other with an indirect water heater [currently use a seperate oil fired hot water heater]. Neither person recommended any kind of outdoor reset or other type of controlls.

They were both told of a possible chimney problem, single flue chimney that has boiler,hot water heater and a wood stove hooked up to it. Has been this way 35years but that might not be to code if new boiler is installed. Mom does not want to get rid of wood stove so did they have any solutions? First salesman said it was a major problem and said they could possibly use direct vent add on to boiler but thats not a good way to do things, they always have problems with those type of units. Second salesman did not know anything about direct vent but would send a "service engineer" out to look at job after signing contract and recieving a deposit. Did talk to another person over the phone and he said no problem ,so times in an older house thats the way things are set up and only have to worry about that in a new house.

I have tryed to educate myself in the past couple of weeks by reading "THE WALL" and I am by no means a newbie at mechanical things but I am now totally confused. Both salespeople would swear by what they sell and how they sell. From what I read here they seem to be doing a quick 1 size fits all type of approach with little or no regard to a corect sizing of boiler to house.

Here are a couple of questions;
1] Is it me, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?
2] Should the new boiler be sized according to the old one if the old one kept the house warm or by a heatloss?
3] Should I be looking for a seperate boiler installer as opposed to a company that handles the install,service and oil delivery?
4] The chimney--is it a big problem with so many items venting in to it, Can a new boiler be vented into it with the wood stove, does it make a difference since this was pre existing as opposed to new?
5] Do direct vent models work properly or are they a constant nightmare?
6]should the oil tank be replaced also, the tank is in the basement-275 gallons- but is at least 40 years old,how do you know when a tank should be replaced?
7] saw the ad on this site for System 2000, is it as good as it claims to be? Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge and insight in helping me sort thru all the salesmans claims of the "best".

Phil Simon

Everybody's Right????

I am looking into a new oil fired boiler for mom's house and my head is spinning from all the BS from the sales people. Had two of the bigger companies on Long Island come to the house and give their recommendations and estimates. Played it both the same way and told them we are looking for a company that could install the boiler and maintain it, would also buy oil from them. Looking long term and wanted the most efficient unit we could afford. Neither sales man measured the house,asked about insulation,or other upgrades to house. Both were told of a large addition that was added about 10 years ago. Both looked at the existing boiler and sized according to the plate on boiler.

When asked if the large addition mattered was told with a question " The house stayed warm with the original boiler didn't it?"
Both recommended cast iron boilers, one with a tankless coil and the other with an indirect water heater [currently use a seperate oil fired hot water heater]. Neither person recommended any kind of outdoor reset or other type of controlls.

They were both told of a possible chimney problem, single flue chimney that has boiler,hot water heater and a wood stove hooked up to it. Has been this way 35years but that might not be to code if new boiler is installed. Mom does not want to get rid of wood stove so did they have any solutions? First salesman said it was a major problem and said they could possibly use direct vent add on to boiler but thats not a good way to do things, they always have problems with those type of units. Second salesman did not know anything about direct vent but would send a "service engineer" out to look at job after signing contract and recieving a deposit. Did talk to another person over the phone and he said no problem ,so times in an older house thats the way things are set up and only have to worry about that in a new house.

I have tryed to educate myself in the past couple of weeks by reading "THE WALL" and I am by no means a newbie at mechanical things but I am now totally confused. Both salespeople would swear by what they sell and how they sell. From what I read here they seem to be doing a quick 1 size fits all type of approach with little or no regard to a corect sizing of boiler to house.

Here are a couple of questions;

1] Is it me, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

2] Should the new boiler be sized according to the old one if the old one kept the house warm or by a heatloss?

3] Should I be looking for a seperate boiler installer as opposed to a company that handles the install,service and oil delivery?


4] The chimney--is it a big problem with so many items venting in to it, Can a new boiler be vented into it with the wood stove, does it make a difference since this was pre existing as opposed to new?

5] Do direct vent models work properly or are they a constant nightmare?

6]should the oil tank be replaced also, the tank is in the basement-275 gallons- but is at least 40 years old,how do you know when a tank should be replaced?

7] saw the ad on this site for System 2000, is it as good as it claims to be? Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge and insight in helping me sort thru all the salesmans claims of the "best".

Phil Simon

Everybody's Right????

I am looking into a new oil fired boiler for mom's house and my head is spinning from all the BS from the sales people. Had two of the bigger companies on Long Island come to the house and give their recommendations and estimates. Played it both the same way and told them we are looking for a company that could install the boiler and maintain it, would also buy oil from them. Looking long term and wanted the most efficient unit we could afford. Neither sales man measured the house,asked about insulation,or other upgrades to house. Both were told of a large addition that was added about 10 years ago. Both looked at the existing boiler and sized according to the plate on boiler.

When asked if the large addition mattered was told with a question " The house stayed warm with the original boiler didn't it?"
Both recommended cast iron boilers, one with a tankless coil and the other with an indirect water heater [currently use a seperate oil fired hot water heater]. Neither person recommended any kind of outdoor reset or other type of controlls.

They were both told of a possible chimney problem, single flue chimney that has boiler,hot water heater and a wood stove hooked up to it. Has been this way 35years but that might not be to code if new boiler is installed. Mom does not want to get rid of wood stove so did they have any solutions? First salesman said it was a major problem and said they could possibly use direct vent add on to boiler but thats not a good way to do things, they always have problems with those type of units. Second salesman did not know anything about direct vent but would send a "service engineer" out to look at job after signing contract and recieving a deposit. Did talk to another person over the phone and he said no problem ,so times in an older house thats the way things are set up and only have to worry about that in a new house.

I have tryed to educate myself in the past couple of weeks by reading "THE WALL" and I am by no means a newbie at mechanical things but I am now totally confused. Both salespeople would swear by what they sell and how they sell. From what I read here they seem to be doing a quick 1 size fits all type of approach with little or no regard to a corect sizing of boiler to house.

Here are a couple of questions;

1] Is it me, is a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

2] Should the new boiler be sized according to the old one if the old one kept the house warm or by a heatloss?

3] Should I be looking for a seperate boiler installer as opposed to a company that handles the install,service and oil delivery?


4] The chimney--is it a big problem with so many items venting in to it, Can a new boiler be vented into it with the wood stove, does it make a difference since this was pre existing as opposed to new?

5] Do direct vent models work properly or are they a constant nightmare?

6]should the oil tank be replaced also, the tank is in the basement-275 gallons- but is at least 40 years old,how do you know when a tank should be replaced?

7] saw the ad on this site for System 2000, is it as good as it claims to be? Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge and insight in helping me sort thru all the salesmans claims of the "best".

David Sutton_6

Hello Confused

Try find-a-pro, top left on banner and have them come look at it, and ou are right boiler match up game dose not work, have a heat loss done or at least a heat load,stay away from tankless coils you will not be happy with one. as far as a inderct goes.. get one! have out door reset added also.
as for the chimey the finda pro for your area will let you know. Good luck and keep reading, your doing the right thing train yourself to save money !!


David

S Ebels

My $.02

In order:

1: Not only is a little knowledge a dangerous thing, it can be a fatal thing.

2.Any and Every, heating appliance should be sized based on a correctly done heat loss calculation.

3. That is a question only you can answer. To me, it would depend on the "vibe" I get from the sales person plus a heavy reliance on recommendations from their existing base.

4.Venting a solid fuel appliance, (wood) in a common chimney with appliances that use other fuels is a definitely code no-no.

5.Not a constant nightmare but they do require faithful maintenance to keep from sooting up the side ofyour house.

6. At 40 years old I wouldn't even think twice about it. Get a new one.

7.No experience with the system 2000 unit. Some oil boilers I would recommend are the Burnham MPO, Buderus G series, Crown Freeport, Viessmann Vitorond or Vitola.

frank_25

from where I sit...

here in Queens, a complete heat loss survey is the proper way to go. Steam is done one way, and hot water is another. As far as equipment goes...replace the OT. No question about that. The boiler depends on your pocket-book. The high efficiency ones cost more, out door reset is another add-on. Do ya want to spend a few grand for 10% ? IMO a Peerless or Burnham w/ Super Stor indirect is a fine choice. If your water isn't too "hard", then a brazed plate heat exchanger may work out for you. Don't get hung up thinking that if the company is BIG, they do a lot of work and must be good. I won't mention names who to, and not to call, but you could ask for a reference list of other happy satisfied customers from the salesmen, or perhaps some photos of their work. Good Luck

Unknown

I agree.

Confused, your doing yourself a great disservice by not having Mad Dog take a look at your place. I think you'll be very pleased as well as a little less confused.

- Norm

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Phil Simon

I did call Triple Crown Plumbing [ Mad Dog] and am waiting for a call back, hopefully begining of the week. One of the other companies that the second saleaman represented is listed on the side bar on this website, so I thought that was a step in the right direction, calling some one from this site. Hope to have better luck with Triple Crown.

Robert O'Brien

If

You are in Suffolk.I'd be happy to take a look

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

brucewo1b

Side bar

if you are referring to the Google ads on each side of this page then you are not guaranteed someone from this site as they are just companys that advertise with Google and they pop up here as google rotates through the system. If you click the Find A Professional link at the top of the page and punch in your zip code you are better off.

Brad White_144

Keep in mind

that this is a busy season for most heating practitioners, especially the good ones! Often they have more work than they can handle at the moment, so please be patient (not that you have been impatient).