NH Plumbers Holy Cow!

ScottMP

"To persons engaged in the installation of any heating, cooling, air conditioning or domestic water heating systems,"

Sounds like you don't need a license in N.H. anymore ?

How Sad.

Hopefully they'll correct this.

Scott

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Dave Belisle

HOLY COW

Thursday I went in to pick up some permits for a couple of boiler change outs and other plumbing work we have coming up and the building inspector wanted to see me. What he showed me was a copy of the revised statue in the State of New Hampshire as it pertains to Plumbers.

Here is one section of 329A:13 That excludes work from being done by licenced plumbers

329-A:13 Exceptions. – The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to the following persons while performing plumbing work under the circumstances specifically described hereinafter; provided, however, that plumbing installed or maintained by such persons under such circumstances shall conform to the state plumbing code.
I. To regular employees of public utilities, as defined in RSA 362: 2, when working as such.
II. To a person, firm, corporation, or limited liability company who regularly employs a person whose duties include installation and maintenance of plumbing on the property of that person, firm, corporation, or limited liability company, when such employee is actually so engaged.
III. To a property owner or the property owner's agent who installs, repairs, or replaces plumbing in the property owner's own single-family detached or townhouse residence, including new construction, or any property owner or property owner's agent who makes minor installations, repairs, or replacements to the owner's property.
IV. To persons engaged in the installation of any heating, cooling, air conditioning or domestic water heating systems, whether solar, oil, gas, or electric, and persons engaged in the installation and servicing of water treatment systems or swimming pools.
V. To any plumbing installations in residential buildings performed by students enrolled in a high school vocational plumbing program approved by the department of education or an approved postsecondary vocational plumbing program, provided such work is performed under the supervision of either a teacher holding a plumber's license or by a licensed plumber who is a supervisor of students in cooperative education placements from such programs; and in those cases where the installation is in a new building being constructed as a part of the vocational program, that the installation will be inspected and approved by an individual or group of individuals chosen by the local school districts from persons nominated by the state board for the licensing and regulation of plumbers. Any person nominated by the state board shall hold a master's license issued by the board.
VI. To employees of public drinking water systems and public water system operators certified by the department of environmental services for drinking water treatment.
Source. 1977, 562:1. 1979, 434:84. 1986, 199:2. 2003, 272:9, 11, eff. Jan. 1, 2004. 2006, 319:15, eff. July 1, 2006.

HOLY COW !!!!!!

What has NH done , new construction , owner's agent !!!???

Take about leaving the barn door open, they took it down !!!!!
This was effective as of July of 2006 !!!!

Dave in NH

kevin coppinger_4

It has been....

that way for years Dave. Really nothing new....
The Plumbing Board keeps a tight hold on that though. ost towns/ciyies still require permits,licencing and the work must meet code...it is only the very remote towns that have any issues...What town are you in? kpc

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Ken_40

Please note:

It does NOT say you don't need a permit, or the ultimate policing force; "insoection."

It is also a power play by utilities, and the fuel merchants, be they oil, NG or LP. Their lobbying has de-fanged more licensing requirements than all the logical forces behind the licensing laws than any other.

Is that necessaily bad? Ever see any difference between jobs that imply ALL licensed individuals do better work that ALL the non-licensed work?

Neither have I. There are craftsmen and far too many butchers on both side of the isle IMHO.

Dave Belisle

THIS IS A MAJOR CHANGE !!!

I am in Claremont , and this is a major change in the law.

You have always been able to do you own plumbing in your own home. But unless it had a CO you couldn't do a new home, now you can. It also now says owner's agent , that can be anybody. Before it was only the home owner.
Owner's agent opens the flood gates !!!!

Joe the handy man can now do plumbing as the owners agent !!!

NH is like two states , the lower half has inspections and inspectors , but the upper half is very rural and there is no inspectors in these towns or any inspections.
At least before the plumber had to pull a plumbing permit before the town would issue a building permit, not any more ......


A contractor doing a Spec house can now have one of his carpenters do the plumbing , The Contractor could move in on a Saturday and out on a Sunday and he has meet the law , .( except for being done buy code , but who's checking ???? )

We just wired a boiler for a contractor that built a new house for spec. It is for sale for $250,000.00. We was worried about getting the CO because he did the plumbing work . I think he was hinting maybe I might put my number on the job.

I told him sure , after we take a sawzall and cut all the piping from the foundation to the fixtures out and replace it. There are so many code violations it is the only way fix it. But under this new law it is going to fly because no plumbing license will be required , and if inspected , it might be the fire Chief, he is looking at the boiler .....

The new home owner won't know either, he thinks he is buying a new home all done to code , but he will be buying nothing but troubles... For a lot of money .....This is Not good !!!

This IS a major change in the State of NH !!!!!

Dave in NH

kevin coppinger_4

is the inspector...

a plumber? If it's not code then it should not pass...period...The RSA does say it has to be to code. Did the local building inspector pass it? the Call Concord and get the state inspector for your area out there to force the change...If the builder does a bad job then he should AND PAY DEARLY... Call Rich Swain at NHPHCC in Concrd and tell him what is happening....
On this side of the state I do not see this happening...sounds like it is just one bad hack builder...

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Dave Belisle

Well, first off when I go to these seminars we all get a good laugh from the pictures of these screwed up plumbing jobs . These pictures are from all over the State. Look at the state plumbing site . There are only five inspectors for a state of over one million people. So it is like trying to stop sand flowing through a sieve. They can't be everywhere .... Claremont has a inspector that has a pretty good handle on the plumbing code , and if he has questions he will have Nancy come in....


Sunapee , NH , just 15 miles East of me is a prime example .It is has been a hot spot for building for years. It has the second largest lake in the state . People pay a million dollars for a house , just to rip it down and replace it with a five million dollar home.

Call the Selectman's office and ask what codes they are using . You will be told they don't have codes in that town !!! They have no inspectors , they have no inspections , none !!!

Cornish , NH , You will be told the same thing !!!!
Nancy Allen The head plumbing inspector has been to both towns !!! They don't care....

Now we all know better, the plumbing code is a state wide code, but the state plumbing inspectors will not step on the Selectman's toes. A state inspector will not go against a local inspector, even if the local is wrong , , you know the part about the authority having jurisdiction . That's what got us into this mess in the first place. Somebody stepped on someones toes and irritated then enough that the law has been changed.....

Think about this .. the remodeling of kitchens and bathrooms ,the home owner could install his Dishwasher , kitchen sink , or bathroom plumbing and fixtures ,as long as it was done to code, but know , so can the owners agent.. What does that mean ????

Owners agent is a pretty broad term , it could be anybody ....

Plumbers in NH could loose a lot of the residential work to non licensed people ......and the State or local inspectors can't stop it. As long as it is done to code...

Oh Boy ..........

Leo

NH

Living in a Mass boarder town doesn't the NH License Plate still say "Live free or die".

Leo

Dave Belisle

Our State motto is ... Live free or Die

Not....Live free and get screwed.....

A plumbing apprentice spends 8,000 hours in training.
Every one of those hours has to be documented for the Department of labor . They are required to have 144 hours of schooling a year . Thats three hours twice a week , in the evening , in the class room , for four years .

The young man that works for me is in his forth year. I'm sure he would rather be home with his wife and baby...

The reason for this , and for the licensing of plumbers ?

To Protect the health and welfare of the public.

nothing more .........

Leo

Oh so Touchy

So touchy, it was a joke.
Your state is known for being easy. When I have done oil burner work I got grief for following Mass Code when it far exceeded any requirement of NH.

Leo

Dave Belisle

No problem , I'm just fired up that our state legislators have mucked things up. I guess they held the states code review board's feet to the fire. The local inspector told me it was take this or loose it all........

As I said

To protect the health and welfare of the public....

I guess that's out the window... Instead of having an appentice one for one , I can now hire an army of owners agents .....

kevin coppinger_4

wrong is wrong...

Dave, If I were you I would get together w/ some other plumbers anad you local supply houses and talk about this...I would also have you ALL talk w/ the local inspectors about codes...go to the newspaper and let them know what is going on and let them know that thelocal heath is at risk from unscupulous people that have know idea what they are doing....theen we can all work w/ the "new " legislators to fix this oversight....kpc

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Leo

I'm Curious

Dave,

You said you guys just wired a boiler for a contractor. Are you electricians also or is your electrical code as liberal as the plumbing code? Next door in Mass most of the lines are boldly drawn as to who can do what.

Leo

brucewo1b

Leo if its after

the firomatic 4X4 box heating pros can wire or in the heating system you can pipe, Maine the heating Master has respnsibility, if the electrician wires it or plumber pipes it the Heating Master is still responsable, Mass if new you need a plumber to pipe and an electrian to wire. Must remembar where I am working at all tmes.

[Deleted User]

Nation wide trends...

A lot of this is backed by an extremely powerful lobby in the HBA (Home Builders Association). They are doing everything in their power to cut the costs of construction, at the expense of the trades and quality to the end consumer.

One of the first questions asked whenever introducing recommended code changes is "How will this impact the installed cost of the affected systems?" If that doesn't tell you what their motives are, then you must be blind.

Money talks, BS walks, and the consumer loses.

JMHO

ME

Dave Belisle

Electrical

Yes

NH 931