Peerless Residential Oil Furnace - Boiling sound

Ragu_5

I agree with Ken on all of his points. The other thing I would bet on is that the installer did not check the pre-charge pressure of the expansion tank before it was installed; 9 out of 10 come to the job underpressurized.

I would also guess that the "running water" sound in the baseboards indicates that there is air in the system.

Call somebody who is competent. Good luck.

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Dave K_2

Peerless Residential Oil Furnace - Boiling sound

About 5 years ago I had a new Peerless Oil-furnace installed in my home. I have been very happy with it. However, for the past two heating seasons I have had two problems that the HVAC contractor that installed the heater cannot seen to figure out. The first problem - the boiler has started to make a sound when it fires and during the time the burner is on that sounds like what you would expect boiling water or steam to sound like. I have full perimeter Burnham Base-ray radiators and this "boiling sound" radiates throughout every room. When the burner shuts down for about 5-7 seconds (while standing next to the boiler) you can hear a boiling sound. If I didn't know better I would think I have a steam system installed. The air has been bled several times and 3 additional air scoops added. The boiler has been drained and a cleaner called 8-Way added and flushed. Still the noise. It actually wakes me up at night because it sounds like someone is running water in the room next door or a toilet running sound. At first I thought it was the water "top-off" valve sticking open so they put a new one on. That is the type of sound we are getting through our Base-ray radiators.

The second problem, and one which began a year after the one above, constant opening of the boiler relief valve. I added a new room and zone on the second floor (again a year after the noise began)which added about 9 more feet of head. Now the only way I can keep the relief valve from opening is to keep the boiler pressure to just about 0 psi. If I add any water, and the system runs for a while on a cold day, the pressure builds to 30 and the valve opens. Could the additional head (which my contractor says is still well within specs) require a larger expansion tank? The one there now is a very small one that hangs just below what looks like an air scoop.

Any help would be appreciated - especially on the noise issue.

Ken_40

Sounds like a combination of things...

1) The pump is probably located on the return?

2) A chemical of some sort was used at some point and NOT rinsed out; but rather left in?

3) The air vents and purgers are allowing air in - NOT letting it out!

Any chance you can take a digital photo of the boiler andf near boiler/circualtor/airscoop(s) - and attach it to your response?

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, I just don't want to look any more stupid than usual.

ALH_4

Well

In addition to what Ken said....

Sounds to me like a bad or very undersized expansion tank may be the bulk of the problem. Check Amtrol's Literature for proper sizing. You will have to estimate the volume of water in your system to determine what expansion tank is correct size. Burnham Baseray literature states 0.3 gallons per foot of baseboard.

This may have been the case before you added the zone, but with the added volume it is more pronounced. Having to keep your pressure so low in combination with the lack of thermal expansion volume, could be causing the pressure in the system to drop below atmospheric pressure and draw air into the system. This could be your noise.

Check that expansion tank. I bet it's too small and may be waterlogged.

-Andrew

Jim Burke comfort zone

heating system problem

Dave take a few pictures and post them so i can better understand the piping lay out would be helpfull.You stated they have bled the system and add air scoops & you have a problem with the boiler relief .!st. off what size x tank is it a # 15 or # 30 2nd. what type of air scrubber do you have & 3rd. is the tridicator reading the correct pressure.
The peerless boiler has a built in air scoop at the top of boiler which should have an auto vent only , next you need at least a # 30 extrol which should be installed below your air scoop and on the suction side of your circulators.

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Guy_6

Minerals

i have seen the "boiling sound" in boilers, primarily dry base units (where the entire water cavity is above the fire chamber). That's not to say that it can't happen in wet base units as well. What I had encountered was hard water deposits on the floor of the water cavity, causing a layer of solid sediment between the iron and the bulk of the water. The heat intensifies between the layers and percolates the thin layer of water in between.
The percolating can increase the boiler pressure, thus causing the blowoff.
There are chemical treatments available to break down the deposits, which can be flushed out.

Mike L

peerless boiling sound

I agree with the other guys,sounds like an undersized expansion tank. what is there now for a tank?#15,#30? a #15 is definetly to small,if it's a #30 add a second one right next to the first one with a blk tee or change it to a #60. As for the boiling sound in the boiler,what model Peerless? If it's an ETC where is the aquastat? They have a front and side coil,how many sections? You might not be getting good circulation through the boiler itself and therefor it's actually over heating and boiling even though the gauge says otherwise.But I'll bet that the real problem is that the boiler itself is not vented. There is a 3/4 tapping on the top rear of the boiler for venting air from the boiler ,(there is a baffel in the water jacket between the riser tapping and this opening to keep air from entering the system)therfore air remains trapped in the boiler causing or allowing the system to boil because air is compressable so the system is under/or reading, false pressure.This problem can also be exaserbated by firing the system at it's upper limit, causing a quick blast or heat.I'm really getting out there if you are a home owner it can be a little tricky balancing a system if you do not know what you are doing.But I'll bet that if you get the boiler vented it will solve 95% of your noise and air problem.

Mike L

peerless boiling---more thoughts

You should not have to drain out the 8-way.although I use a different cleaner it should be ok.Again i don't know how big this system but sounds like a 3or4 section boiler. try changing the fire to a hollow pattern.It's a little shorter flame and might even out the temp. differential across the boiler causing it to heat up more evenly.and most definetly call someone local who has MANY GOOD REFERENCES not the first guy in the book or somebodies buddy!!

Rich Ferris

Few things to check

As you stated that the system seemed O.K. for a while. The fact that it may be pumping away and you added another zone. Are there zone valves and where is the expansion tank in relationship to the circulator. This is for the pressure situation. If you are running at 0 psi it is more likely that your temperature in the boiler is over 200 (what is the aquastat set at?)and this can actually lead to boiling water in the system at less than 0 psi. A vacuum may be occurring. The expanision tank could be bad or water logged or undersized. The new zone could be aggrivating the situation. Send pictures so the guys can help if posible. Good Luck
Rich