MPO hits a certified 93% eff today! (PAH)

T-RACY

LOTS OF LEAKING BURNHAMS IN OUR AREA,ALSO A LITTLE PRICY,MAINE.. WOULD LIKE TO TRY ONE,REP SAYS PRICE WILL COME DOWN.BEEN USING VIESSMAN OR BIASI MOST OFTEN.SOUNDS LIKE YOU CAME UP WITH A GOOD SALES TOOL,MAYBE HOOK UP CHILLED WATER SYSTEM TO IT AND INVITEALL HO FRIENDS ON OVER FOR EFF. TEST....COUPLE BEERS..ALSO VERY COLD THEY MAY NOT EVEN NOTICE STACK TEMP RISING.THANKS FOR THE INSPIRATION,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Dave Yates (PAH)

Our first MPO install

went very well. An old New Yorker that went to leak heaven & had a dom-coil with NO mix vlv - can you say scalding. Small kids there too.

Upsell to MPO and an indirect thanks to the eff rating and increased cost of fuel. Set up today, the little MPO beastie hit 93% on start-up and would settle in at 87% in a gradual glide as system temps would rise.

Gotta love electronic testing of combustion products - real time diagnostic fun. Sure as heck impresses homeowners too. Yeah, it says 87% in the literature, but seeing is believing. The 90+% was a nice surprise.

Nice job Burnham.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

Not deaf yet!

Older, yes(G). Lots of leaking (insert a boiler or water heater name here) in our area too. The NY'er in this case was an old gal whose time was up. Too many of the leakers we see, however, are the result of installation errors that could have been avoided if the installers had bothered to look at the drawings in the instruction books!

Not to jump tracks, but chust yesterday, I was meeting with a builder looking at a condo project where they've built hundreds of units and we walked out back to check on some exterior details. I spied the DV water heater exhausts (all done the same way) exiting under the dining room windows - directly under and about a foot of separation! The heating contractor's exhaust vents, on the other hand, travel up inside the buildings to exit at the second floow where no windows are above the terminations. Can't help but wonder - which one of those two vents presents a CO issue when windows will be open? - where's the inspector's head as these were all approved? why can't someone put the brakes on this kind of dangerous work? And, no, the builder doesn't care. He thinks just because the installs were inspected and approved, that he's off the hook!

As for the MPO's cost VS other oil-fired boilers? With today's fuel prices spiking dramatically, that extra 5% eff grabbed the HO's attention. I gave them options for other models with their installed prices & let them decide. The indirect came into play as one of several options, including a domestic coil with a scald-guard mixing valve, but - here again - the HO's were looking at overall operational efficiency and understood an indirect would cost less to operate than a dom-coil. Besides which - they're goimg to have teenages shortly and they're gonna need lots of hot water(G).

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Mad Dog_2

Nice job PAH

I can't wait to try one. Once you start start testing with Your Bacharach or Testo......you'll ALWAYS test. You learn so much and feel more confident when you go home at night. Mad Dog

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Unknown

Dave....

Any pictures of the little guy for the "Proud Wall"?

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Dave Yates (PAH)

in the can

Glenn,

DL asked for them first(G). Didn't get back (yet) for a digital shot. I'd like a shot with the analyzer in use.

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D Logan Ireland Oil Co Inc

Burnham Boiler Installation errors

Dave Maybe you can elaborate a little more on the installation errors causing the V73 boiler to leak in approximately the same spot in the 2nd section time and time again. I found myself explaining today to a long time customer why her Burnham boiler is leaking again in the same spot as it did 6 years ago.Yes that is correct.We had already replaced this leaker 6 years ago from the same house.Stop the BS about most problems being caused by faulty installs.Maybe the steam boilers I agree but not all hydronic boilers.

Rodney Summers

hold on a second...

hold on, i thought the literature spec of 90+ was an afue rating (meaning overall system/design rating) not combustion. even my old 1980 peerless pin based HX jot does 90+ in the beginning (for about 30 secs - ha ha) & then settles down to a 83~84% steady state - but i know it ain't no mpo. whatda i miss here?

soot

Bill Nye_2

Dave

Dave , you know what ? Everyone knows V-7's leaked. Burnham doesn't make them anymore. They spent millions dealing with it.

So what is your point? People still taking shots at Glenn and Burnham for V-7's, it's time to move on.

Will_5

New Horse

Dave, I think it's about time to find a new horse to beat, that one's about dead.

Al Gregory

When you get a V7 hot water leaker they give you another V7 to replace it with. They are coming from somewhere. Maybe the millions they are spending would be better spent on a different model.

Bill Nye_2

Ok Al

Maybe you have a point there.I have heard a lot of people who are very frustrated with this. The V-8's have a better track record, I think.

I think I have seen about every brand of boiler or water heater leak at one time or another,some right out of the box. I haven't seen a leaky Viessmann yet, but I don't see all that many of them.

Mark Hunt

HA


IHAVENOIDEAWHATYOUARETALKINGABOUT!!!!!!!!THENAGAINNOONECOULDPOSSIBLYUNDERSTANDYOURPOSTSINCEYOUAREFUNCTIONALLYILLITERATE.NOWGOINSTALLANOTHEROVERSIZEDBOILERANDMAKESURETHATCO2NUMBERISCLOSE.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

Woids

Dave,

I didn't say "most". I said "too many" & I wasn't limiting my comment to any particular brand.

I understand your feelings regarding a problem with a manufacturer's product(s). Burnham is certainly not alone in that regard. I've been burned too, just not by Burnham. They've been a stand-up company whenever I've witnessed a problem (either first-hand or as an outside observer), which is why we use their products. Everyone eventually has a problem that's product-specific. It's how they deal with it that defines them as a company IMHO.

I had a problem with Burnham once that wasn't resolved to my satisfaction. A gas valve that fluttered and sputtered on a new boiler. My supplier basically told me to drop dead. I was newly in business & figured to H with Burnham. Note - I only dealt with the supplier & it was they who I should have bypassed, but the Internet wasn't invented yet & I didn't know there was any recourse beyond the supply house chain. To me, they represented Burnham. So, I switched brands.

I remained loyal to that new brand for many years until one year, they came out with one of the first generation high-eff boilers. DV in SS. We installed quite a few of them before the first one came back to bite me in the butt. Repeated "resolutions" failed to resolve the issues. That went on for four years (meanwhile all of the other installations began taking large chunks out of me butt). My supplier (a different one) largely ignored my pleas for help (they're long gone) and the manufacturer's agent was sent in. No dice - the boiler still continued its lock-out mania. We replaced every stinking piece & part - to no avail. The HO finally threatened to file suit & I bypassed the rep, who wanted to continue playing footsie, by responding to an ad in a trade journal where the VP of the co touted their warranty as the best in the business. The HO got a new boiler, but the Co only wanted to give us a four hour credit! I was already out more than 5-G's and in no mood for playing ball. T&M or I walk. Bear in mind, they wanted a complete re-pipe and that was the first time I saw pumping away in a piping diagram. They paid for the install. Lower grade boiler, although still a DV. Its internal circ failed less than a year later and the HO called someone else. Called me to say I've got one week to correct the piping or he's calling a lawyer (I should have added that they were truely the HO's from **** - just perfect that they should get a lemon!). You see, the new victim (he just didn't know it yet) had never seen pumping away & immediately condemned it as being totally wrong. Never mind they'd had heat whenever the boiler worked! I ran into him about a year later (no, we did not "correct" the piping) and asked him how he was getting along with the HO's. "The absolute worst customers we've ever encountered." Hah! I'd endured four+ years of that abuse and extended our warranty for the full ride without ever once having either HO so much as say thanks. Middle of the night calls, weekends and holidays - I was at their beck & call - 24/7/365. Fast forward about ten years and a call comes in from a long-ago customer - my wife's former boss. Ye-gads, I'd forgotten his was one of the same series. Went all that time without a hitch, but I sure recognized the symptoms over the phone. Last one we'd installed that hadn't been yanked. I agreed to call the co. What a diff a new rep makes! He was honest, straightforward and freely admitted that had been a failed product. No fuss - he simply offered a new boiler and to pay for its installation. Had he been on board long time back and acted the same way, I'd have remained loyal. But, I had long since returned to Burnham and they had responded well to every problem I ever had - including a few I created by failing to follow instructions myself. I've seen them bend way over backwards for istallation errors where I'd have told the installers to take a hike.

Most manufacturers take a load of guff that their products are crap when it's not their product that's to blame and they step up to the plate because they know it's good for their relationships with suppliers, the public and contractors. That's what led to my comment and it wasn't meant as a reflection on you or the V7 issues.




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Unknown

Al, Dave L. and others

As Bill stated, the V7 shots are indeed getting old. Everyone already knows the issues as well as the program to deal with them. In most cases, we have always offered the option of a credit toward a new V8. We now offer a similar option to upgrade to an MPO depending on the age of the boiler. I'm not the one that handles these claims so don't ask me what the precise particulars are about. That can be explained by your Burnham Representative who you should be maintaining a working relationship with. If you've severed your relations with our representative, then you most certainly won't be aware of these various options.

This site and others is intended to be a source of information and knowledge. Some of you are always eager to jump in here and post your comments about V7 boilers but never contribute anything else. Sure it is your right to do so but you aren't accomplishing a single thing except showing the rest of the world your negativity and lack of objectivity.

Not all V7 issues are the result of possible casting issues. There have been countless boilers out there that have suffered the consequences due to cool return water from a large mass system entering a boiler that has been maintaining temperature for a tankless or because someone changed controls to allow a cold start boiler to maintain temperature (yes they really do this don't they Dave L.). Did we refuse these warranties........I doubt it. There are numerous issues that can cause what you are seeing with these. I would recommend taking a close look at the system though if you have lost more than one boiler in the same house.


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Dave Yates (PAH)

Nuttin!

Just the observation that you've evidently seen too. I wasn't expecting to see that behavior on start-up, but that's the beauty of testing in real-time. Nice too, to see a unit hit its eff number on the money - outside of the lab.

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Al Gregory

I spent twenty minutes typeing a reply but it's not worth my time anymore.