Mark Hunt's Experiment post has me thinking

Constantin

... actually developing an appliance and then testing it in controlled conditions. I maintain that many burner systems will be prone to producing CO under blustery wind conditions due to ΔP imbalances between the intake and the exhaust. For example, I saw my outdoor gas water heaters go from being docile, happy creatures to producing lots and lots of CO, flames shooting backwards, etc. as wind conditions shifted and/or intensified until we perfected the design (which we did).

Granted, most burners these days feature some pretty powerful fans to keep things under control, but some of the "vent terminals" I see leave me scratching my head based on my limited experience. Furthermore, any chimney install w/a basement intake air and w/o a barometric dampner also seems very, very suspect due to the high ΔP's that can develop between the basment and the top of the chimney as the air races overhead.

I would test every install and considering the number of boilers you guys install and/or service every year, a good combustion analyzer will repay its investment in little time. Even if a $1000 unit only survives your tender attentions for only 2 years with 200 work days and only 1 visit a day, that comes out to less than $2.5 a visit. Training w/a luminary like Jim Davis adds to the cost of buying the equipment but the peace of mind and the potential aversion of accidents/lawsuits is priceless, IMHO.

Unknown

I'm a novice with digital equipment

Actually , I've only seen it in action once , when Charlie Masone from Beckett stopped by a problem job we had . What an amazing piece of equipment , watching things happening in real time .

My question is focused on oil burning equipment and for those who use a digital analyzer regularly .

If you have the proper CO2 , O2 , draft and temp numbers , how often do you find excessive CO ? And what is the highest CO reading you've seen with all the other numbers looking good ? Thanks in advance .

Unknown

Ron

I've seen a few cases where higher than normal readings were occuring at the beginning of every run cycle. This may be normal when starting from cold but not when temperatures are up. Turns out it was picking up on flame impingement caused by misaligned electrodes. The flame was following the spark sideways until the ignitor dropped out and then it straightened out and the CO levels diappeared because of no more impingement. There is another reason for using an electronic test device.


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Robert O'Connor_11

Ron Jr

Happy Holidays. I have done extensive field studies on this issue. Shoot me an email with a number I can call you on and I will respond with a cell number you can reach me on.

As always

All the best,

Robert

ME

Mad Dog_2

Ron...........

co is a lot like the steam....very quirky, does what is wants...when it wants...with very little apparent explanation. There is a tremendous amount of unseen things going on. When isthe company gonna spring for one? With all the installations you do, they should definitely purchase one. Its an insurance policy. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Robert O'Connor_11

Matt

In the hands of a pro ... Steam does what you want... Same with CO. The devil is in the details!!!

I have met you and seen your jobs . I know you are in control.

All the best

Robert

ME

Mad Dog_2

True Bob, but I spent many a night..............................

"rolling " around on the floor with both - mostly the steam. The knowledge don't come outta the books or overnight. Took me along time to learn both. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Robert O'Connor_11

It's Holohans fault

He's the one that made me think.. and gave me something to think with(The Wall) books etc.

Sleepless nights... Thats passion. You are inflicted with it as our many of our Wallie friends!



Robert

ME

Mark Hunt

Hi Ron


Here's a situation that Darin and I found a while back.

We had just installed a new oil fired FHA furnace and we were setting up the burner. Light off we saw a spike of CO, we expected this. Co stabalized after a minute or so and stayed rock steady during the burn. CO2 and O2 numbers were fine, no smoke, stack temp fine, draft fine. BUT....when the burner shut down the CO blew through 1300ppm! Hmmmmm.

We would never have "seen" this without the analyser.

Another instance: Oil boiler, spike at light off then settled down to acceptable levels, then it started to rise. THE MOST dangerous CO condition is rising CO! Jim Davis says it perfectly, "I would rather see a flame with 1500ppm steady than a flame with 1...2...3...4...etc...".

That is not to say that the 1500ppm flame is OK, but the rising CO flame is worst.

The digital equipment let's us see in real time what is happening. Can't do that with any other equipment. When I started testing, I was using a Bacharach 100 single gas analyser. It was under $400. I was able to identify CO situations, but I couldn't het the full picture without seeing the rest of the numbers.

Darin and I are getting ready to bring new people on and EVERY employee we hire will get trained and we WILL provide digital testing equipment for EVERY one of them. Not an option AND it is a write-off!

Happy New Year!

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mark Hunt

You must still


know people involved in this testing Constantin.

Can you find out what they are doing with the "new, improved" FVIR power vented units?

Also, I'd like to see some of those test results you speak of with bouncing