New Heating System Help!!!!!!!!!

Rich_27

I am a homeowner who needs help with a heating system! I had a plumber over today who tells me that my system is antiquated and inefficient. He suggests puttitng a Buderus 103BTU boiler in. He plans on putting one pump with 3 zone valves, and fully wiring and adding shut off switch at the top of cellar stairs. First what is the quality of this boiler? Secondly, he wants to charge $5,845 to complete this work what do you think of the price? Lastly should I consider another brand of boiler?

Thanks!

Al Letellier_14

new boiler

Buderus is an excellent piece of equipment, no matter what the model. You said "a plumber" told you you needed a new system. I say, find out what his experience level is. Does he service what he sells? Does he do the wire/fire and is using zone valves the best alternative. As to the price, it's hard to say without being there and seeing the scope of work provided. IF the price includes bringing everything in the system up to date (chimney, fuel supply, electrical, etc.) it may be OK. this is a major investment. Get a second or third opinion, unless you really trust and know this plumber. I'm a plumber too, but 85% of our work is heating systems and boilers, so it's not all bad to be talking to a plumber. Just be sure he's the right guy for the job.

S Ebels

Al's right

I was called by a local bank this morning to look at a problem they have with a newly installed boiler. They had a "plumber" do the install and it didn't get the blessing of the state boiler inspector. The guy truly is a good plumber,and does beautiful pipe and solder work, plumb, level and square with the earth. To the untrained eye it looks great but he made some mistakes that were obvious to anyone who hangs around here. He also did the bank a dis-service by installing a plain old CI boiler with no reset or any other type of control strategy that would increase their system's efficiency. It just runs up to 200* on any call for heat. There are much better ways......... but that's a whole 'nuther topic.

Like Al said get some more opinions. Buderus makes an excellent product but it sounds like he's suggesting basically the same type of setup you most likely have at present. Do some research, and this is the best place there is to start. Ask other people here privately via their e-mail on the reply page what they have and how they like it.

Brad White_14

Another parallel view...

Just one aspect to add to the other postings (both of which are spot-on by the way):

Did your contractor arrive at the boiler sizing by replacing nameplate for nameplate the boiler you have now? In other words is the boiler capacity based on a calculated heat loss taking into account any improvements you have made such as insulation and new windows?

Too often boilers and furnaces are replaced BTU for BTU and the homeowner (that's you) would not capture one particular benefit of insulation: boiler capacity relative to load.

Suppose your old boiler and heat loss was indeed 103 MBH based on the house being uninsulated. Since that time say you insulated the walls, attic, added storm windows, resided and used Tyvek, etc. etc. Your heat loss might have been reduced by 40-50 percent. Your over-sized boiler would cycle ridiculously on the coldest day (being 66 to 100 percent over-sized) and would cycle even worse in the warmer weather that constitutes the other 90% of the winter.

The other approach to sizing a boiler, using the connected radiation, would apply principally to steam systems. You could (and should) know how much radiation you have in terms of square feet or BTU's per hour at a given water temperature, regardless. If your system is hot water, you may have 103,000 BTU's per hour worth of radiation connected if supplied with say, 180 degree water. If you heat loss is appreciably less, the variable is the water temperature. You can heat your house using cooler water and save money in so doing.

Long story negated if the contractor did as I suggested or if the house has not been improved or was already insulated as well as can be.. "If it aint broke, dont't fix it".

Leatherneck

replacing boiler

What is the problem with the existing boiler? What prompted you to call him, service repair? If a car mechanic tells you your car is antiquated and done wouldn't you want to find a liite more detail as to what exactly can't be fixed and why? Not cost effective? As for any heating equipment what is mainly sold in your area by the contractors and how long have they been in business.

will smith_4

Hoolllddd on a second...

One, talking price should be taboo here. We don't know anybody's carrying cost of doing business, or mark-up. Let's be fair to each other. Second, don't knock plumbers cause they're plumbers; I know plumbers that know more about fitting than a lot of my fellow fitters, and more about boilers-for that matter. They often smell worse than fitters, but oh well. They still clean up real good with soap and water. Third, never assume the guy before you intended to do the wrong thing just because he did. Some jobs may go out as a bid; " I want a 2 million BTU boiler removed and replaced, using existing controls/piping." Happens a lot. Fourth, (or is it fifth?)-I don't care if you wrap the building in four feet of concrete, the boiler has to meet the connected load-which doesn't know insulation from Adam. If you radically alter a building's designed insulation, it follows that a radical change must follow to the mechanicals-which include the boiler, piping, and convectors. Yes, measure the connected load. It's often different from the size of the boiler. But you will have problems if you take into consideration major differences in insulation/windows/doors. I've seen some load calcs that told you to figure in awnings, trees, even draperies! Problem is, all of these can be taken away by folks that don't like them. Unless you can sell (sometimes) an entirely new system (arteries and all)-you gotta size to the connected load. And that's not always the existing load. Whew. Sorry for rambling.

S Ebels

Will

This is the fourth job this season where I have been called to "pick up the pieces" after this guy. He is, as I said, an excellent plumber, but he doesn't know JACK about piping a boiler correctly, combustion adjustments or anything beyond a T-87 and zone valves for control. He is a disgrace to the heating side of the pipe trades and shouldn't be doing any boiler installs period.

On the particular job I mentioned in the bank, he didn't even pull a permit for installation. The State boiler inspector came in for the bi-annual inspection required for commercial installs and found a new boiler. It was kind of a high pucker factor for him........ got a little torqued about it and told the bank they had 30 days to get someone in to pipe it right and pull a permit or he'd fine 'em. Banks HATE fines.

Note to all: When I say plumber, that's PLUMBER, I am refering to someone who works with water supply and DWV type piping. I am not inferring in any way that all plumbers who do both types of pipe work (heating and water supply) are inferior to those of us who do only heating work. The guy mentioned in the post above is a water supply type plumber and shoud stick to that only.

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

#1 what was the efficiency of the boiler--any documentation --did he use any combustion instruments? do you have any problems with the existing boiler ? was a calculated and accepted method of doing a heat-loss of the house performed? or did he just get #s on the boiler in service now --pricing --there are too many variables example --i can replace a boiler at 1 house i know of for $4,000 no frills direct swap -- up to $9,000 and more----different type of boiler, controls piping --hot water production dependeing on whats wanted --
how about a picture of the --patient in question --

will smith_4

My Apologies-

I didn't know you had a history with this contractor. Knowing that changes everything!