Career at a crossroads

Timco

Let me assure you...I was in the same boat for years as an apprentice sparky. I labored & slaved for my journeyman, who had me pack & unpack ALL materials, and the same for ALL tools. What did I learn? The value of every second of being paid by someone else to WORK, no matter what the task or how demeaning. I was on HIS time. I really appreciate that now, being self employed. I learned respect. In your case, were you ALWAYS on time, and dependable in ALL cases to not drink while on call, etc? That, I feel, is just as important as BEING FAST. Do it well, and HURRY!!! Timelyness, speed, and dependability is what an owner.AND customers look for. Market that and you will ALWAYS have a job. Let employers know you understand the value of THEIR time, and are NEVER late, no matter what. I saw alot of "didn't get along"s in there, but I've been there too... and as long as it wasn't a matter of them wanting you to carry in all the material, lay out the cords, AND pack in the tools in the snow while the journeymen watched and drank coffee, (which I put up with and showed a STRONG work ethic) then you should be OK. You have no room to gripe at the bottom. I pulled home runs, CATV and phones for months before I wired a branch circuit, and it was my dues. I was a much better employee and am a better employer from the experiences I put up with.

T

Ken C.

Need your objective opinions

I was recently laid off. Few companies hire or advertise around the holidays, so, yes, the timing is bad, but my employment record has me more concerned, despite the fact I am a licensed plumber.

In short, I’ve had eight jobs in my five-year career. That averages about six months per job. The longest job I held was a year and a half, but that was early in my career.

I’ve been filling out applications, but getting little response, and I think my job hopping is scaring away potential employers. I think most of my job changes have been for valid reasons (read below), but employers zero in on the short time at each job.

Here are the reasons for the job changes, from the first (oldest) to most recent:

1st job lasted 6 months; I quit because I didn’t get along with the journeyman who was training me (public humiliation was his main training tactic).

2nd job lasted a year and a half; I quit because I wanted to work more on my own and not be a “helper” all the time.

3rd job lasted 2 months; I tried new construction, which I had little experience with, but the owner soon decided he wanted someone more experienced, so he fired me.

4th job lasted 6 months; I quit because I didn’t get along with the owners.

5th job lasted 6 months; I quit because work slowed down so much after the heating season ended, that I could not afford to keep working there since I was only paid on commission.

6th job lasted 7 months; I quit because owner failed to keep his promise to give me a performance review and pay increase after three months.

7th job lasted 5 months; I was fired after an argument, which started because I was always on-call, with no backup, and it was putting stress on my marriage.

Most recent job lasted 7 months; I was laid off for lack of work.

It’s easy for me to say that I just haven’t found the right situation for me yet, but, then again, there’s no such thing as a perfect job.

I’m a very independent person, and I think this has a lot to do with me hopping around a lot. Actually, someday, I would like to be self-employed, but I figure I need at least five more years experience before I’m ready.

Does anyone else here have a similar employment background, and how did you deal with it? Did you eventually find an employer you stayed with for a long time, or did you take the plunge and go on your own?

Also, does anyone have any general advice for a job hunter who has an employment record like mine? For those of you who do the hiring, what would persuade you to overlook (or at least downplay) a large number of jobs in a short length of time on applicant’s record?

Mad Dog_2

Its time to be honest with yourself

This is a very tough business - as you know. Your record would scare me as well. Maybe your a malcontent? As a Union apprentice, I worked for about 5 shops in 4 years.

1) laid off due to work stoppage - but hired back two more times. This man eventually signed for me to become a licensed plumber.

2)Laid off for refusing to remove asbestos. They wound up shutting a larage union job down because of me..."laid Off" two days later

3)Laid off for questioning why my check was for straight pay when we worked 10 hours ot and our union aggreement said we got double time. After the second paycheck I politely asked again. One of the guys "took me on the side" and assured me that if I kept it up I was gone. "look!" he sadid your right but this boss keeps us busy when its slow." Layed off 2 days later. Side note: I saw this chooch years later and he cried that the boss had screwed him.

4) My last shop was the best, and I stayed with them over 3 1/2 years. They worked us hard , but didn't play games with $$$$$$. At the end though, the foreman I was with was replaced with a new, cheaper guy. He too wanted me to remove asbestos - alot of it too. Laid off two weeks later.
Bottom line, I never got laid off for being lazy or disrespectful although I too worked with many rough characters. These guys were top-notch mechancis, but had bad attitudes and tempers. One guy threw his coffee right down on my feet because he said I didn't get it the way he liked it. Another used to call me bad curses becuase I pointed out when his work was shoddy. Listen , you have to stick around a decent shop long enough to prove yourself and have EVERYONE respect you as a plumber and a person - I didn't say like, now, respect! I was quite unhappy in alot of those situations, but there is something called paying your dues. You need to hang tough and glean as much as you can from each shop - good or bad. Suck it up. You need to try to get along better than you have. Having your own biz is no picnic, and I don't think that is the answer here. Look inside yourself...its a new year. Good luck , Son. I'm here if you need a sounding board. Mad Dog

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Tom R.

Next job

Nothing wrong with moving up in the world, but you have to have a job to get a job. When you do find your next job, if it doesn't suit you, no matter how bad the conditions, stick with it until you find a better job. Control your temper, stand on your head if you have to. Do what they tell you. Sometimes you won't like it. That's why they call it a job. Good luck.

Al Letellier_9

hiring problems

I agree with Mad Dog. As an employer, your history would make me uneasy, especially the "didn't get along parts"
This is a tough business and the most important thing I look for is simply this : ATTITUDE. The skills can be taught and work ethics can be learned, but attitude is up to you.
As to some advice, prepare a resume that outlines your skills and licensing level, along with any training you've had, more so than your work history. Above all, don't lie about anything, it will come back to haunt you. I've held over 12 different jobs before I went on my own. Each job was detailed as a stepping stone to a more rounded career path, and I can only remember one job that I applied for that I didn't get. Mad Dog is right...take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself this (and be honest in your answer)..."would I hire me, and why?" When you can honestly answer that question yes, you'll find the right job. Suck it up and stay put. Pay your dues and learn all you can. Increase your licensing level and take the initiative to get training every chance you get.
Good luck. Let us know how things work out.

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Terry_14

Long Hard Look

I would ask you why be in this business?

My training came long and hard I was allowed to carry the tools and watch what went on untill I knew what tool to hand the boss before he asked. Only then was I allowed to work independently.

You have done a good job of describing your mistakes lets hear the success stories. What made you happy at each job?

In our county the state funded career training helps people find themselves and introduces you to prospective employeers.

When I was undecided as to my carreer I went to a TEMP AGENCY. that way I test drove my job choices while i matured into what I really wanted to do.

My college background was Acounting I hated it only after reading "What Color is your Parachute" did I realize what I really wanted.

Mad Dog has the right attitude in my book.
My current employeer told me I was hired more for my attitude than my skill, he was a wise man

The New Year is a new beginning hope you use it to succeede

Terry

gerry gill

he threw his coffee at your feet!!!

thats a dude with some balls the size of new york..hehe...that would be like me throwing a cup at hoss cartright..hehe..surprised you didn't wrap a pipe wrench around his head...paying the dues part did suck..yup..indeed.

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bob young

city plumber

You should look into becoming a city worker. the pay is union parity , they can't fire you and you don't have to know much or work very much. perfect for a man of your talents.and in new york you can retire after twenty years at half pay. check it out.

Ken C.

Terry, you asked ...

... what I liked about each job. Well, here are your answers:

My first job served as an introduction to plumbing, where I learned basic plumbing skills. It toughened me up – plumbing new houses in the dead of winter and dealing with a demanding journeyman. I figured if I could deal with HIM for six months, I could deal with anybody at least that long.

The second job was where I stayed the longest and learned the most. They did mostly residential repair work, which I still prefer. They placed a high importance on doing quality work (they were not the fastest plumbers), and I think their quality-versus-speed ethic has stuck with me, as I have difficulty with my speed on new construction. They had a very loyal customer base, and I enjoyed meeting the people.

For my third job, I wanted to try new construction so I could become a more well-rounded plumber. The thing I liked best about construction plumbing is that you are always moving, so the day just flies by.

The fourth job was enjoyable because I was back to doing service and repair plumbing.

On my fifth job, the thing I liked the most was the freedom the owner gave me and the other employees, who each ran our own trucks, to make our own judgments. I also learned a lot about heating while working there.

The sixth job was a larger company; the thing I enjoyed was the camaraderie and joking among the employees. Also, the owner was one of the smartest people I have ever met (and could plumb a new house pretty damn fast too). I wish I could’ve picked his brain more …

Good things about my seventh job were that I was a big fish in a small pond (the only licensed plumber in a shop of apprentices), so people looked up to me and I got to pass on some skills. The pay was good. The owner often said “thank you” (something few bosses do). As the only experienced guy, though, I was relied on to the point it was seriously hurting my home life, so I had to move on.

Finally, on my the most recent job, the best thing about that was my boss, who was very fair and even-tempered.

John R. Hall

Dependents

You said you were married -- do you have children? Does your wife work? I ask because the motivation to earn a living is even greater when you have a family that is dependent on your wages. If you can afford to, perhaps your wife can support you if you need to take some more training, in order to expand the job possibilities.

I would agree with other people who suggested that you take a long look at yourself and decide if you can suck it up and try to learn from your bosses rather than disagree with them. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was fired from two jobs as an adult and the men who fired me had the biggest positive influence on me. They were tough and hard to get along with, but they were very smart and taught me a lot about business and about my profession. I felt that I let them down and should have worked harder. Peel away the crusty layers and you might find some very good teachers.

Good luck.

Ken C.

No, no children ...

... and luckily, the wife works, so I don't have those motivators.

Some of the hardest workers I know have several kids. One guy has six kids, and often works seven days a week.

Yes, you can learn a lot from difficult-to-get-along-with people. The journeyman I worked with at the start of my career was highly regarded as a top-notch plumber, although everyone in my shop disliked his personality (they actually cheered for me when I told them I refused to work with him any longer. Unfortunately, he was the only licensed plumber there, so there was no one else I could work with. The others were all excavators and laborers.)

While I did learn a lot from that journeyman (as well as you can learn in a constant state of fear, anyway), some of the difficult-to-get-along-with people I encountered were just plain jerks. They either weren't that talented, or had no desire to pass their talent on.

Dale

No wonder there's a problem

John, you write about why the industry is having trouble getting young people to want to work in PH and HVAC. Lets see, If I was reading the candid comments in this list of posts and I was a parent of a smart young person would I want my son or daughter to have to put up with this? Even in the military you now don't get to humiliate a young person just for the heck of it. I work at a utility where none of the outside workers make less than 60K for a 40 hr week and even we are now having young guys leave because they are skilled,in high demand and something isn't right for them. This was unheard of up till a few years ago. They leave much more often if the work group is unfriendly to them, this costs us alot of money. Those of us who train the new hires try to make sure we are as positive as possible and that the new hires are only (as much as possible) sent for OJT with crew leaders who are known to be patient and positive. I have worked in scary environments pre OSHA, spent time as a combat soldier and quit jobs years ago because the boss was a moron and been fired because I wouldn't put up with unethical behavior or verbal abuse. Today with the skilled labor shortage my advice to the original post is to work hard and be ethical but keep looking for a position where you are treated with respect and valued as the Human Resource that you are.

Bob Forand

I have often told my sons

I have often told my sons that 110% = success. This is a statement I live by daily. It is how I think when I get up and when I have finished for the day. To that end..I have never been layed off or fired from a job. Just the other day I was telling my 18yr old son that it should not matter what you have to do if you are paid a wage...

My advice to you is pick up a few motivational, or personal insight books and read. You must find YOUR motivation....

Good luck.

Supply House Rick

Sound Advice

I would hire enthusiam over technical skill any day...
Jack Welch, CEO, General Electric

It seems you have lost your passion, was it ever there in the first place? Find something else to do unless you can reinvent yourself.
Good Luck,
Rick

Biged

"Wax on, Wax off"

Big Ed

Medical

Medical after retirement too,right?

I was thinking city was a good fit for him too.........

J Resnick

at the Crossroads

I too have been there and done that. You have to get up in the morning and look at yourself in the mirror
If you are happy with what you see you are doing something right.
After an apprenticeship of 5 years And alot of bulls&%t. I became a journeyman plumber.10 years later working for the same shop I became the super and estimator, My advice to you is hang in and pay your dues it does get better.After 20 years I have retired.
My son who started with me when he was a youngun Has now got a very lucrative business,Plumbing and heating.