failed inspection

S Davis

Boy if I gave one of my customers a bid and I installed the system and it didn't pass final, well thats my problem I could not see asking the customer for more money because I screwed up when I am supposed to be the professional, if that was the case why even go out to give a bid shoot just do it over the phone.


S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating

JIMBO_2

Failed Inspection

Just had the local fuel oil company install new power vent Weil Mclain gas-fired boiler, in southern Jersey. The inspector refused to accept the exhaust vent location. He said it's too close to the ground, too close to the windows, and the houses are too close to raise it up above the windows and elbow it down, because it's too noisy for the closeness of houses (about 5 feet apart). Now the company wants me to pay for a stainless B-vent chimney up through the roof, even though they alone decided where to locate the exhaust vent and gave me a written estimate for a certain price. The inspector was there a month ago, took a quick look and gave a written approval (I think for the gas piping) and didn't mention the already installed exhaust vent piping. Who is responsible for this "extra" cost? The reason I wanted the power vent was to get rid of the old chimney in the first place. No, using the existing chimney is not an option, and it's offset halfway up to the roof. First there was a ceiling, floor, rug and wall damaging leak (saying it was "bad solder," then there was flux stains all over the carpets, now this. What do you think? I'm worn out by all this unnecessary bull, and they're looking for another grand to fix their blunder. What would YOU do?

bob young

design error

if all you say is true ,they should install the chimney and you should pay for the material..if you want to be a sport you could give them something for the mechanics labor. they seem to have made an error in design.

lchmb

Just curious

But what does your contract say? Does it mention anything about installing a system to code? If it does it may be their responsibility to meet the code requirements.

will smith_4

Don't know about everybody...

But one of the things I get paid for is knowing codes. That includes proper gas, electric, combustion air, and flue installation. I don't know what your original contract stipulated, but unless it was clearly laid out that you knew there could be a possible code violation with the flue but chose to do it anyway and damn the torpedoes, I'd say you have a strong case in requiring the installer to correct the problem on their dime. When a company installs a boiler, a furnace, or a sink-you have expectation that it will be done following National and local building codes. Whenever I pull a permit in a village/city, I ask which National code they follow, and whether or not they have any exceptions to that code. Any city can have exceptions, but they are required by law to present you with a full listing of each;some jurisdictions are stricter than the National codes-we have to perform due diligence ourselves to find out. Bottom line is-YOU the customer are not expected to know all of the codes. We are.

Anthony Menafro

Inspection

Some inspectors pick up problems before they become a problem, others don't. The bottom line is that your contractor is supposed to know the codes,and better yet, know the inspector and his pet peaves. I don't know if your contractor is a local guy or a guy who isn't familiar with the inspector. It's a shame that we all follow the same codes in N.J. and fall under different guidelines depending on our interpretation of the code and the acting inspector's interpretation. In any case, I think that your contractor should assume responsibility for his actions, but you also need to be compassionate as well. If the cost is that substantial, work with him in the same good faith that he used with you. According to Intl. Fuel Gas Code 2003 sec. 503.8, item 3-- "The vent terminalof a direct-vent appliance with an input of 10,000 Btu per hour(3kW)or less shall be located at least 6inches(152mm) from any air opening into a building, and such an appliance with an input over 10,000 Btu per hour(3kW) but not over 50,000 Btu per hour(14.7kw) shall be installed with a 9-inch(230mm) vent termination clearance.The bottom of the vent terminal and the air intake shall be located at least 12 inches(305mm) above grade". There will be other sections of the code that will probably be brought up, so make sure that your contractor has done his homework. Good luck.

Anthony Menafro

Phil_6

pretty bold

asking you to foot the bill for their error. I wouldn't have the nerve. If it's installed the way it should be and the inspector is just breaking chops they should be fighting it. If it's not, then I guess they eat the corrections. I wouldn't offer them any extra money. And I speak as a contractor, not a homeowner.

jerry scharf_3

huh??

A contract doesn't need to say that for it to be required. The job is not completed and the customer can not be forced to pay the final payment until the job is signed off by the inpsector. They pulled a permit, so it's got to be signed off to "finish." If this was a fixed bid, the contractor takes the risk that what he installs will meet code and get approved. If not, then he gets to fight it or fix it.

Jimbo, I'd be a sport and help him out a bit, but if the contract is a fixed bid with no specific clause that allows them to skate you don't owe a dime. You also should not pay the completion payment on the original contract until the permitted work is completed.

jerry

Weezbo

Unless the house next door...

was built before they finished their work ,and the lot line rules changed, the sidewalk level changed,and the window was spun in over night .......it would be a little bit over the top to suggest their power vent was installed to code in their burg.

each city, town and burg has certain restrictions based on NFPA IAMPO UMC NEC or some alphabetical soup arrangement that has definite guide lines that are required for installation of materials. in say ,California there may be say some other batch of codes over and above the ones in your state . if you install things in one city you may need 5 licenses ,in another, none. the restrictions are the same way. however the rules in your area are something that may change every so often,,and whatever the prevailing code may happen to be on The date it is inspected might also have some bearing on whats what.

find out from the inspector if the rules were recently changed and if so, what ,if any, of the violations were affected by that change,....

the installer should basically look at the job mention to you that the powerventor is colse to the lot line or that the window is not an openable window or whatever....

lchmb

That

That was exactly my point Jerry. Unless of course he didn't get a contract..:( Then he has nothing to really protect him other than final payment...

Unknown

Anthony your code

stipulation is for a direct vent appliance. I am pretty sure this is mechanical exhausting which must be four (4) feet from windows and doors. This is often a mistake that is made in the difference between direct vent and mechanical exhausting.

Paul Fredricks_2

I would add..

> if all you say is true ,they should install the

> chimney and you should pay for the material..if

> you want to be a sport you could give them

> something for the mechanics labor. they seem to

> have made an error in design.

Paul Fredricks_2

I would add..

Pay for the COST of the extra material. The rest is on them. Sounds like none of this is your fault.

Rodney Summers

Chimney

Has the chimney been looked at by a licenced sweep? No way to get a flex liner down it? I'd try to save the chimney before building a second one.

Anthony Menafro

Compliance

Tim, your advice is noted. I cited that code section in particular to show that their contractor needs to do his homework. Other sections also call for that termination to be 10 feet from an adjacent property line and 7 feet off the ground if it is a public walkway(concrete). Most times you aren't able to install a forced draft unit in close conditions such as this. They would need to terminate the unit in the rear or front of the house. As I said, the inspector will cite other code sections as well as the one I brought up, and rest assured, it will be the worst case senario for the contractor. Thanks for the response.

Anthony Menafro

Dave Yates (PAH)

It's called The Golden Rules

He who has the gold makes the rules! Do not give them the money until this is done correctly. The manufacturer's literature will include a section on venting. Typically, that includes drawings to aid in the understanding of what will be correct. We've had inspectors, gas co employees and propane delivery drivers (why they're tossing in their 2 cents baffles me) "state" a termination was not correctly installed. However, once they were shown the instructions and we took the time to educate them, the installations were approved.

If your installer has done the work properly, then they should stand up and defend their installation and the inspector will have no choice but to back down. If a generic code passage deviates from a manufacturer's literature, then I'd call on the mfg to step up and defend the install. If we make a mistake, we correct it at no charge and try to learn before repeating the same again. On the other hand, if the installation doesn't meet code, then no money changes hands until it has been re-done AND has passed muster with the inspector.

If the contractor refuses to comply, you'll need to keep the money and notify them by certified mail that they have x-number of days to correct the defect in workmanship. (In my home state of PA, a HO has four years in which to file for workmanship defects.) You'll need to add that if the defect is not corected, you'll have it done by someone else and deduct the cost from the original contract.



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