Spitting / failing steam valves

bob young

what type of radiation does the rest of the building have ? possibly the fin tube is a replacement for original radiation. fin tube on one pipe steam is usually not good. if fin tube is 2 " pipe with 1 1/4 " valve if you don't have an eccentric coupling , that constitutes a physical trap which is like not good. but i am sure your plumber knows that. you do have a plumber ,right ?

Mark Naden

spitting /failing steam valves

Hi,

Im an architect and we have recently completed a renovation project in a Manhattan Coop on the 16th floor of 24. The building has a one pipe steam system with central boiler in the basement. The apartment has 4 risers going through it and in the apartment each riser has a branch with two shut off valves with a 4’ finned 2” pipe radiator going in opposite directions and Danfoss valves on the end of each radiator. All the radiators are pitched correctly.

We are stumped by an intermittent problem where occasionally some or all the radiators will begin spitting water out of the steam valves creating pools of water around each valve.

We also have experienced on two of the radiators a regular breakdown of the steam valve. They quickly loose their ability to close and exhaust steam for the heating cycle necessitating the shut down of these radiators.

We currently have Hoffman and Watts valves and another problem is the noise from the exhausting steam is quite loud.

We assume that the variable nature of the problem must be with the main system which we don’t control but would like to know if we can solve the problem with a more robust steam valve on each radiator?

Any light you chould shed on these problems would be greatly apreciated. Thanks

Mark Naden

Bob,

Here is a photo of the situation. This detail is repeated for all the radiators. Maybe you can better analize the situation fron this.

The rest of the building has all manner of radiators connected to the risers. In this apartment we replaced longer fined tube sections with shorter ones. We also used copper pipe between the valve and the radiator becuase it's exposed and looks better.

We do have a plumber but he has no answers for our problem.

Mark

bob young

incorrect steam piping

the piping after the valve to the left looks like it is backpitched & creating a pocket where condensate can puddle. with twin branches off the bull of a tee it is impossible to get pitch on both. the most you could get is either both dead level or pitch on one and back pitch on the other. that piping arrangement could never work correctly.

John H.

spitting vent

Will the Danfoss valves allow air back in upon closing? If not they may cause a vacuume not allowing the water to drain making the prev. noted pitch problem even worse.

bob young

danfoss valves

Good point ,John. could work even though piping is bogus. remove them & see what happens.

Mark Naden

doesn't the steam valve on the danfoss valve open after it cools and break the vacume?

Mark

Steamhead (in transit)

Danfoss one-pipe TRVs

do have vacuum breakers. Of course, yours might not be working.....

The baseboard is probably Slant/Fin "Multi-Pak 80" with 1-1/4" steel-pipe element.

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Long Beach Ed

Come on guys -- Obvious...

The runout is far too small to handle the baseboard.

And steam baseboard without a return needs a very hard pitch -- I'd say 3" for a 4-foot baseboard. It would also help to have the vents a bit higher.

Whoever installed this mess should not be paid.

Long Beach Ed