Buderus Serviced today Efficiency numbers

Joe@buderus_2

I will contact Riello next week when they return from holiday vacation and inquire further about the insert depth.

Jason, per our conversation on the phone, please contact the burner technicain and have him come back. It's possible the CO of 975ppm reading might be an incorrect reading or an issue that needs to be looked at right away.
15% CO2/ 88.8% efficient is higher than is recommended. Recommended CO2 is approximately 13% and efficiency 85% to 86%.

Rodney Summers

my new service company came out today to clean and service my buderus here are the numbers

efficiency 88.8%

excess air 1.3%

stack temp 322*F

primary temp 76.3*F

o2 0.3%

co2 15.4%

co 972 ppm

co air free 986 ppm

draft -0.04wc

what do you think i am running a g115-28 with power venter
riello f3 burner power vented
thanks

Mark Hunt

SHUT IT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!


972 ppm CO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

SHUT IT OFF NOW!!!!

Mark H

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Steve_35

I hope they are still there

972ppm CO???

If they've left, shut it off and call the company back. No way should they have left with a CO reading at that level.

Steve_35

BTW, I just noticed this was the poster with the Buder/Riello

I made a comment about teh Riello insertion looking excessive to me. I exchanged a couple of e-mails with Buderus Joe seeking enlightenment. The data he sent back to me indicated Riello was looking for end cone insertion of maybe 3" on some models. This data is included when you buy a package.

Our supplier, who happens to have been one of the original Buderus importers and helped Buderus develop the original set up parameters, doesn't sell the packages from Buderus but rather puts the package together themselves to keep the cost down. We've ALWAYS installed the burners per Riello's specs that came with the burners we got. Those specs called for and still do call for the end cone to be 1/4" back from the door insulation.

So my next question to Joe was, "If we're getting good numbers with the burner end cone recessed 1/2" is there any reason to change them now?" In short, his answer was no.

It appears Buderus and Riello have made such fine, forgiving equipment burner insertion isn't a critical set up item. BTW, our numbers are pretty consistently >85%-88%. And, no, our CO isn't in the 900ppm range

Rodney Summers

you guys are joking with me right?

he put in the fyrite pro and never had to adjust it it was the same as last year he put in the instrument and said come here look i cant do any better then this and he never made any adjustments

he changed the nozzle strainer and oil filter and vacuum

Rodney Summers

okay i called hi and he said his machine is a little off on the co part of the machine but the other numbers are good and not to worry about it he did have to go back outside and purge the co out of the machine when he was here

thanks

Mark Hunt

No joke!

Under no circumstance should a vented applaince be allowed to continue to operate when it is producing 400+ppm CO whether it is drafting or not. The O2 number is way off as well.

Something is seriously wrong here Rooster.

Shut it down.

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

What about the O2?


This guy may have a sensor on it's way out or even a low battery.

Either way, as Joe says it needs to be checked again.

Mark H

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Rodney Summers

thank you very much mark i appreciate your concern i will see if i can get him back i just hate to bother this guy

thanks

J.C.A._3

With .....

A CO number that high, do you really think you're bothering him ? I'd not only be bothering, but demanding something be done to either properly test or make this piece of equipment comply to manufacturer and field standards.

We're talking something that could KILL YOU and YOUR FAMILY here, not some run of the mill little oversight. Those numbers are off BIG time. If I ever saw O2 and excess air numbers that low, I would be expecting the neighbors to be calling and telling me about the black smoke pouring out of my chimney or side of the house .

Time for some real test equipment to be brought in. Chris

S Ebels

Not right at all

Typical numbers that we get with buderus/riello combinations are more like these. I pulled some service invoices to double check.

CO2 in the 12-13% range.

O2 in the 3-4% range

CO always less than 20 after warmup with efficiencies in the 85.5 - 87% area.

The high CO2 and low O2 on your test, along with WAY excessive CO, indicate that there's not enough air to completely burn the oil. Also, I have to think the thing is making some smoke at the levels you have posted.

John Starcher_4

I'm guessing.....

...that it's his tester. I betcha the O2 sensor is shot.

At least I hope that's what it is. He should be trained enough to realize this.

Starch

Rodney Summers

i shut it down for now and i am starting the wood stove ill see if he has time to come tomorrow and re-test and see if he can get them numbers down

and also if he can get the efficiency down to 87% i guess it's a good thing i posted my number here :-)

thanks guys

Mark Hunt

My concern


is with the health and safety of the nation. Sounds like a bunch of grandstanding, but it is the truth.

You be sure to keep us informed Rooster (I'd like to know your real name), we concern ourselves with YOU.

Mark H

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Rodney Summers

hi mark my name is Jason thank you

Steve_35

Looks to me like

the excess air and O2 are low and the CO2 is high. Together these indicate incomplete combustion. The high CO agrees with that.

Mark Hunt

NICE TO MEET YOU JASON!!!


Thanks so much!!

When it comes to your safety, I will NEVER back down.

Mark H

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Rodney Summers

i hope my room sensor comes tomorrow i cant Waite to see how well constant circulation works on fuel savings

Jason

Robert O'Connor_11

Mark

now it's on to phase two of the TEST crusade.

Understanding the numbers. Can't believe that printout was left on the job . Why didn't the tech realize those numbers were bogus?.

Personally, I carry both a wet and electronic kit so I am covered if my electronic tester shoul go down.

Rooster does your tech know you post this stuff here?

All the best

Robert

ME

Rodney Summers

oh yea he was happy to see that i did such a nice job on my boiler and that i am so fascinated with heating and he is a very close friend with Allen from oil tech talk.

i don't think he would have left it this way if he though something was bad he is a very nice guy and has been doing this for 36 years.

he told me that when we did the first test he saw the numbers but could not get his printer to work then he took it out side to purge the co out of it and then came back and got the printer to work and he handed it to me.

i told him i was going to post it online because i thought wow he made my boiler 88% efficiency you guys would like that

so i wanted to show you all what a good job he did for me
stack temps where good so i thought nothing of it

so i blame his fyrite pro for this :-) not him

thanks
Jason

[Deleted User]

You said it right Robert...

and I've said it in print NUMEROUS times.

It's not just enough having the instrument. You need to know how to interpret the numbers, and should know what to do if the numbers are not right.

The teachings will continue ...

ME

Weezbo

I am inclined to agree for a change *~/:)

bolting a gizmo to a box printing out some bs on a printer and vanishing into the wood work does not a combustion test make.

a good oil guy knows that this set of readings is totally outa whack.the stack was about the only thing i saw that might be haning with all good buh if anyone hands you some print out i dont care if its from the 2006 BXMF POS With Laser light and a litium scope if you dont know what the heck the numbers are supposed to be how in the heck can you the joe Human Being have any fricking certainty it is right? there are a heck of alot of uncommon sob's that think somehow this printout is like some cureall for 56% excess air 1000F stacks,06 smoke,.01 O, a co2 of 15, and co o 900ppm. give me a break a blind guy deaf in one ear and blind in the other with his head posteriorly located could hear the thing wasnt burning correctly. i have to think Alans friend is just trying to pick our curiosity and wants to make some rational point about test procedures when approaching a burner with a piece of test equipment that is obviously printing out some wild and erroneous readings.

readouts may not be the same on two printers is probably the point.

*~/:)

Mark Hunt

Robert, I agree


that knowing what the numbers mean is as important as getting them. That is, as you say, phase two.

As for the wet kit, if all you had was the CO2 number what else could you have done? The CO2 was elevated, but not by much. The O2 and CO numbers would never have come up.

I personaly believe that the testing equipment in this case is in need of repair. The CO and air free Co don't jive. The air free should be MUCH higher.

Mark H

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Robert O'Connor_11

Mark (P) Hunt

P is for passionate!

The electronics provide so much more data. You are correct.

This is # 2 fuel.

15% co2. That is irresponsible.

I agree with the most honourable contributor from MI.. Steve Ebels -( We think he's making some smoke!) . I rarely leave anything over 12.2% However with this particular equipment I'm ok at 12.9% -13%.

To take this further I get guys asking me at the supply houses about oil problems. They think that I'm crazy when I ask them about their co readings and especially when I push them on ignition CO readings .


Back to the wet kit question.Was a smoke test done...

Back off CO2 results 1 1/2% from trace of smoke.

Mark you fishing with me? I know you understand!!!



All the best

Robert

ME

PS:

Assuming the tech in question understands all these points. He needs a lesson in the the tort laws!!! More education. Why give the lawyers any ammmo if something goes wrong later!

Steve_35

I don't understand this, Mark.

The O2 was 0.3%. CO was 972 ppm and air free CO 986 ppm. Seems like if the O2 is that low the air free CO wouldn't be much higher than the CO sample.

I mean, what I see is low O2, high CO2, extremely high CO and air free CO that are close together. Seems to me the unit is severely underaired.

Please bear with me. We have had the Bacharach all that long and haven't found any training any where in upstate NY yet.

Robert O'Connor_11

pitman9

I agree completely.

All the best

Robert

ME

PS

Check out Bacharachs: "Training Room" on the web > I learned so much there a few years ago it enabled me to fully use the Fyrite Pro 125. It also solved some repeat calls

http://www.bacharach-training.com/

Steve_35

Been to Bacharach's online training.

Downloaded and printed it all. We're getting better at it but still run into odd things from time to time and feel we'd really benefit by some hands on training.

I will say it's been a valuable tool in picking up CO issues we never would have found before. Things like CO in the 500-600ppm range with a gas system set to spec. Drop the pressure 1/4"wc and have the CO drop down to 30ppm air free. It still amazes me such a small change could make such a huge difference.

Robert O'Connor_11

I'd

love to go to Jim Davis' or Bacharach's courses. Unfortuntely they don't come near here very often. So all I have is the net.

All the best.

Robert

ME

Robert O'Connor_11

WeeZy



Are you a reincarneated James Joyce?



Combustion is everything!!Accurate Testing will get you to the afterlife!

All the best

Robert

ME

PS: While I do wonder: What colour is your Parachute?

I know you don't want one!

Weezbo

Parachute ? I donn knee no stinky parachute!

"I gotta crescent wrench! I can climb out there on that wing buddy and tighten them bolts i see wiggling there way out of the motor mounts on this hunk a junk aeroplane..."

"Ok! Ok ! please quite down, you are scaring the hell out of the passengers,forget i said anything "

like that kind of reality of my conversation with the stewardess?

That i know sounds like a flight of fantasy however , may i assure you, that is almost a complete quote of mine,the guy sitting next to me and the stewardess didnt bug me one bit for the rest of the flight )

Robert O'Connor_11

As you were... and

Should you Wish:

May God bless you!


All the Best

Robert

Me

Weezbo

I think you are referring to my completely unorthodox

sentence structure and complete dialectical anti thesis to the English language *~/:)...which as a child i registered as a formal complaint with my English teacher in the form of compositions that required the school Headmaster to fully decipher

He almost always would just shake his 81 yearold head and say You write Brilliantly however the idea of this exercise is to communicate and it is not good enough that you alone know what this means ,...where upon i would ask questions posed by Locke and Hume about the entirely subjective assertations and ask him if it might not be more of a benifit to place me in a class that studied the blue and brown book to perhaps better enable me to make myself understood I hated English Class dont tell anyone :)Were you lucky enough to ditch English for Wittgenstein?

Robert O'Connor_11

Weezy

Rodney Summers

good news guys he is coming out to retest the system and he will do a wet test also. i will keep you posted with the new numbers

thanks

Rudy

What??

How does he know it is "a little off"??? The only way to know that for sure is with some calibration gas and if he has that, he could easily calibrate it...

Rudy

Don't hesitate to call

If we don't get to your area often (there are only three of us covering NA!!), don't hesitate to give us a call.

I've got guys that call all the time, kind of odd, I know them real well at this point but wouldn't recognize them in person unless they said something!!