Make old steamer in apartment run better?

JH_2

JH_2

Hi all...
Looking for some advice from the steamheads while I wait for Dan's book to get here in the mail.

I'm not a pro, just a renter that moved into an apartment with steam heat. I had a place with gas/steam

years ago but I never thought about it much. This new place has issues, so I read pretty much

everything on here and am looking for advice.

First off I rent. Im on the second floor of a two family with 2 oil fired single pipe steam plants. My

boiler is an American Severn, boilerplate says 400 sq ft rad on a 1.75 burner. Its baffled and per the

maintenance card is running 1.2gph. It has a tankless coil water heater tied into a superstor ultra

tank setup - I guess to run like an indirect? The boiler has a single header - I think 3.5 or 4 in that T's into the mains, I measured about 28-30" from the water line to the main. The main is a single straight run - 12 ft to the back of the house of 1.5" and 25 ft to the front of the house of 2" necked down to 1.5" and appear to be pitched well. There are main vents but they are near the boiler. From reading in the library Im roughly guessing around 150-175 sq ft of radiators.

It drinks oil - 1/2 a 275g tank in 6 weeks just making hot water. Also the rads heat uneven and lots

of water hammer, hissing vents. And the basement was aobut 85F.

The system works - thought not great - but I figured with some work I can get it running better.

Landlord has the service contract so I had the tech in to do the tune up. One radiator - that looks

like a late add on - wont heat at all so he turned up the pressuretrol, which as I expected from

reading didnt do anything.

So I read through the great info here and did the following-

1 I insulated all the pipes and even the tankless coil.

2 I turned down the pressuretrol to 0.5 in/1.5 out

3 I opened all the radiator supply valves fully

4 I added shims to pitch the radiators properly

5 I boiled all the vents in vinegar and replaced a couple that wouldnt seal with what I could find at

HD (cheapos)
ed
6 I flushed the low water cut off until the water ran clear and drained the boiler down to 1/2 height

in the glass.

7 I swapped the way out of adjustment mechanical thermostat for a Honeywell Focus programmable that I

had from my old place.


Now things run better. Basement is down to 70F. Water hammer is gone and the radiators all heat, and

they do in 25 min or so rather than an hour+. Burner runs a lot less often. Water in the sight glass

looks clear and doesnt move at all over a week. When I flush the cutoff once a week it comes out rusty/

muddy at first then clears.

Still have some issues. Even after the rads are hot a couple of them hiss and gurgle. Going down to the

boiler I dont feel any air from the main vents and they look rusted in place so I dont want to touch

them. Also when the heat comes up after a long setback the burner just runs well after all the

radiators are hot long before the pressuretrol cuts off. In fact I took the cover off the pressuretrol

to watch the switch and it would only cut out if I cranked the cut in well below zero... Maybe the

scale is out of calibration?

Bottom line. The system is not great... from my limited understanding and reading here it needs end of

main vents, rework of the near boiler piping and probably a lower rate nozzle. The boiler probably

needs to be completely flushed and cleaned - but the drain tap at the bottom is totally clogged... Really

it needs a a whole new boiler - But Im not the owner and I am not going to ask the landlord to do that

since I may be out in a few years.

Any other simple things I can do to make it run better? Or should I just be happy I got it running this good?

JH_2

Hi all...
Looking for some advice from the steamheads while I wait for Dan's book to get here in the mail.

I'm not a pro, just a renter that moved into an apartment with steam heat. I had a place with gas/steam

years ago but I never thought about it much. This new place has issues, so I read pretty much

everything on here and am looking for advice.

First off I rent. Im on the second floor of a two family with 2 oil fired single pipe steam plants. My

boiler is an American Severn, boilerplate says 400 sq ft rad on a 1.75 burner. Its baffled and per the

maintenance card is running 1.2gph. It has a tankless coil water heater tied into a superstor ultra

tank setup - I guess to run like an indirect? The boiler has a single header - I think 3.5 or 4 in that T's into the mains, I measured about 28-30" from the water line to the main. The main is a single straight run - 12 ft to the back of the house of 1.5" and 25 ft to the front of the house of 2" necked down to 1.5" and appear to be pitched well. There are main vents but they are near the boiler. From reading in the library Im roughly guessing around 150-175 sq ft of radiators.

It drinks oil - 1/2 a 275g tank in 6 weeks just making hot water. Also the rads heat uneven and lots

of water hammer, hissing vents. And the basement was aobut 85F.

The system works - thought not great - but I figured with some work I can get it running better.

Landlord has the service contract so I had the tech in to do the tune up. One radiator - that looks

like a late add on - wont heat at all so he turned up the pressuretrol, which as I expected from

reading didnt do anything.

So I read through the great info here and did the following-

1 I insulated all the pipes and even the tankless coil.

2 I turned down the pressuretrol to 0.5 in/1.5 out

3 I opened all the radiator supply valves fully

4 I added shims to pitch the radiators properly

5 I boiled all the vents in vinegar and replaced a couple that wouldnt seal with what I could find at

HD (cheapos)
ed
6 I flushed the low water cut off until the water ran clear and drained the boiler down to 1/2 height

in the glass.

7 I swapped the way out of adjustment mechanical thermostat for a Honeywell Focus programmable that I

had from my old place.


Now things run better. Basement is down to 70F. Water hammer is gone and the radiators all heat, and

they do in 25 min or so rather than an hour+. Burner runs a lot less often. Water in the sight glass

looks clear and doesnt move at all over a week. When I flush the cutoff once a week it comes out rusty/

muddy at first then clears.

Still have some issues. Even after the rads are hot a couple of them hiss and gurgle. Going down to the

boiler I dont feel any air from the main vents and they look rusted in place so I dont want to touch

them. Also when the heat comes up after a long setback the burner just runs well after all the

radiators are hot long before the pressuretrol cuts off. In fact I took the cover off the pressuretrol

to watch the switch and it would only cut out if I cranked the cut in well below zero... Maybe the

scale is out of calibration?

Bottom line. The system is not great... from my limited understanding and reading here it needs end of

main vents, rework of the near boiler piping and probably a lower rate nozzle. The boiler probably

needs to be completely flushed and cleaned - but the drain tap at the bottom is totally clogged... Really

it needs a a whole new boiler - But Im not the owner and I am not going to ask the landlord to do that

since I may be out in a few years.

Any other simple things I can do to make it run better? Or should I just be happy I got it running this good?

JH_2

Hi all...
Looking for some advice from the steamheads while I wait for Dan's book to get here in the mail.

I'm not a pro, just a renter that moved into an apartment with steam heat. I had a place with gas/steam years ago but I never thought about it much. This new place has issues, so I read pretty much everything on here and am looking for advice.

First off -Im on the second floor of a two family with 2 oil fired single pipe steam plants. My boiler is an American Severn, boilerplate says 400 sq ft rad on a 1.75 burner. Its baffled and per the maintenance card is running 1.2gph. It has an external tankless coil water heater tied into a superstor ultra tank setup - I guess to run like an indirect? The boiler has a single header - I think 3.5 or 4 in that T's into the mains, I measured about 28-30" from the water line to the main. The main is a single straight run - 12 ft to the back of the house of 1.5" and 25 ft to the front of the house of 2" necked down to 1.5" and appear to be pitched well. There are main vents but they are near the boiler. From reading in the library Im roughly guessing around 150-175 sq ft of radiators.

It drinks oil - 1/2 a 275g tank in 6 weeks just making hot water. Also the rads heat uneven and lots of water hammer, hissing vents. And the basement was aobut 85F.

The system works - thought not great - but I figured with some work I can get it running better. Landlord has the service contract so I had the tech in to do the tune up. One radiator - that looks like a late add on - wont heat at all so he turned up the pressuretrol, which as I expected from reading didnt do anything.

So I read through the great info here and did the following-

1 I insulated all the pipes and even the tankless coil.

2 I turned down the pressuretrol to 0.5 in/1.5 out

3 I opened all the radiator supply valves fully

4 I added shims to pitch the radiators properly

5 I boiled all the vents in vinegar and replaced a couple that wouldnt seal with what I could find at HD (cheapos)
ed

6 I flushed the low water cut off until the water ran clear and adjusted the level to 1/2 in the sight glass.

7 I swapped the way out of adjustment mechanical thermostat for a Honeywell Focus programmable that I had from my old place.



Now things run a lot better. Basement is down to 70F. Water hammer is gone and the radiators all heat, and they do in 25 min or so rather than an hour+. Burner runs a lot less often. Water in the sight glass looks clear and doesnt move at all over a week. When I flush the cutoff once a week it comes out rusty/ muddy at first then clears.

Still have some issues. Even after the rads are hot a couple of them hiss and gurgle. Going down to the boiler I dont feel any air from the main vents and they look rusted in place so I dont want to touch them. Also when the heat comes up after a long setback the burner just runs well after all the radiators are hot long before the pressuretrol cuts off. In fact I took the cover off the pressuretrol to watch the switch and it would only cut out if I cranked the cut in well below zero... Maybe the scale is out of calibration?

Bottom line. The system is not great... from my limited understanding and reading here it needs end of main vents, rework of the near boiler piping and probably a lower rate nozzle. The boiler probably needs to be completely flushed and cleaned - but the drain tap at the bottom is totally clogged... Really it needs a a whole new boiler - But Im not the owner and I am not going to ask the landlord to do any of this 'cause I'll be out in a couple years as soon as I can buy a place.

Any other simple things I can do to make it run better? Or should I just be happy I got it running this good?

JH_2

photos...

Hmm didnt go though, trying again.

kevin coppinger_4

It looks...

like you have done well...You still need to do the main vents though. Get larger ones, a coulpe of Hofman 75 's or a Gorton #1's should work...You will probabaly need a big wrench to get the old ones out...kpc

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Steamhead (in transit)

JH, how long are your steam mains

and what pipe size are they? This info will tell us what main vents you need.

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JH_2

the mains

Well Im up early... Boiler kicked on at 4:30 and the wailing from the vent in our bedroom woke me.

First off to answer the question about the mains. The boiler is 2/3 of the way to the back of the house. The riser goes into a T into the long main. right over the boiler therre are two condensate return loops that drop down off the main to the back of the boiler. The main vents are mounted on 6 inch nipples at the top of these loops.

Main to the back of the house:
1' of 2" -> 10' of 1.5" -> 1' of 1"
(Total length about 12')
There are 3 1" radiator take offs, 1 at each point it necks down.

Main to the front of the house:
8' of 2" -> 17' of 1.5"
(Total length of about 25')
There are 4 radiator take offs.

There are no vents or connection for them at the ends of the mains, only near the boiler.

JH_2

While Im up this early, I tried a couple more things.

First, the wailing radiator in our bedroom has a hoffman 40. I swapped that for a larger vent and now the rad seems to heat faster and not wail so much. This radiator takes off the short main only 10 ft from the boiler so I think they used the small vent to throttle it and push the heat to the living room which connects 25 ft at the end of the other main.

Overall, adding larger vents to all the big radiators is helping though some seem to collect water.

Second - I decided to go at the pressuretrol again. I had it set to 0.5/1.5 but the boiler would keep running looong after every radiator was hot. So I figured the scale is probably not accurate and I'll just have to tune it by running - kinda like working on a carb. BTW, on this one the differential is additive. I started at 0.5 cut in and 1 differential. I cranked the heat up 5 degrees or so and I waited for every radiator to heat completely across. Then I slowly closed the cut in adjusting screw until the burner cut out.

Now the cut in setting reads below zero but it will run long enough to get every radiator completely hot then cycle normally. The pressure guage reads around 3psi when the boiler has been off for a long time and 5psi once its hot and the burner cuts off. I figure I've got it close enough.

JH_2

More info.

Home today while we get ready to head to my parents for Turkey...

So I tried another test - swapping vents. And wouldn't you know it the no-name replacement vents from HD wail wherever i put them. So its those vents not the radiator they were on. After the holiday I'll go find someplace to get good replacements - I assume I should stick with a name brand like Gorton or Hoffman, correct?

Bob_43

Vents

http://www.pexsupply.com/CategoryPre.asp?cID=300&brandid=

Mike L

steam

whether you do it or get the guy back is up to you but I would replase the boiler drain with a ball valve,rod it out so you can flush the bottom of the boiler out,then replace the pigtail on the pressure-trol-leave it at .5/1.5 operating pressure,add some squick and a good dose of boiler cleaner,let it go for awhile and then flush it out in good shape. Readd squick and boiler cleaner along with the other suggestions posted here and some decent vents and you should be as ok as you can without spending alot of money and fixing up the landlords boiler for him

Steamhead (in transit)

OK

so your main vents are actually on the ends of the dry returns. Try two Gorton #1 or Hoffman #75 vents on the long one, and one on the short one.

Those "US Air Valve" (actually made in Taiwan) vents from Home Depot really are loud. Gortons are much quieter.

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JH_2

Thanks a bunch steamhead and Kevin.

I sent all those crappy vents back to HD and put in a few hoffman 1a's.

I also replaced the main vents with Gorton #1s... took a 2 foot pipe on the end of a pipe wrench to break them loose but they came off. Turned out the old ones were "Dole 3C" and they were both plugged solid.

So now Ive got new vents upstairs, working main vents and fully insulated pipes.

WOW.

Now the first audible sign that the heat comes on is when I hear the vents click. No wail, no hiss, no sound at all except for a slight gurgle in the one radiator closest to the boiler. And the heat comes up sooo much faster. I still have to play with the balancing (figured the 1A's would be good for that) but overall its night and day improved.

I think I'm done. I believe you guys that the boiler drain cock needs to be fixed so it can be cleaned out but I'm not messing with that one. I may get the tech in to look at the one non heating radiator and I'll bring it up. If they will fix it on the landlords dime fine - otherwise its good enough for now.

Thanks All...

Christian Egli_2

Brains and steam are always a powerful mix

Isn’t it amazing how your maintenance brought this system back into shape for none of the cost of a whole house tear down.

All I can think of adding, if ever and whenever you fix that boiler drain, then a good boiler descaling might give you back all the efficiency of a new boiler, or so. Still, one day, a new boiler will be quite nice, suggest to the owner to start saving for one.

All in all, good job.