Oversized boiler, poorly piped, replaced! Oh joy!

Steamhead (in transit)

not sure what you mean about the branches- is the main 60 feet long with two 25-foot branches?

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Dave Miller

As my newfound Wallie friends recall.....

I had issues with our replacement Utica boiler on our one pipe steam system beginning with bad near-boiler piping, and it was 72% oversized. With some help from my new friends, we managed to convince the contractor to do the right thing and replace everything.

The new install team took some persuading, but eventually agreed to pipe (sort of) according to a Burnham drop header drawing someone had posted here, and Frank's drop header suggestions via some pics he posted. I assumed the advantage of a drop header was for additional "head room" for drier steam, so I was pushing the idea over his objections, as he had never seen such "in all my years". I finally signed the Burnham drawing (see attached) relieving him of responsibility.

The good news is all of our hissing, banging, short cycling and gurgling are gone, and with some more skimming, we can make the sight glass surging go away. I now need to balance the system and finish the asbestos insulation replacement.

Which leads me to the following questions (please excuse the long post):

1. Any obvious problems with the piping? (First 2 pics) (Yes, I put the gauge on from the original Boynton Square Pot circa 1930)

2. Given the 60' main and 25' branch(s) is the new Hoffman 4A main vent OK? (Next 2 pics)

3. The rads are not heating all the way across and some are heating better than others; would you go with replacing all 7 vents with variables?

4. With the 42" (from center of glass) risers and the drop header, does anyone insulate some or all of this near boiler piping?

I feel so much better about this new set-up (see last 2 pics for previous debacle) and am proud we were able to help the contractor see the light. I plan to thank the owners and recommend they attend Dan's seminar from Geneva, NY. Could not have done it without your help and Dan's, so thank you once again and please have a good Thanksgiving...........

Dave Miller

brucewo1b

Dave

That should be a close nipple coming out of the Hartfoed loop and dropping to the return to much nipple can cause banging. That tee also looks too low but it might be the pics, recheck your manuel and measure it. Header looks good though. Much better than before. And yes insulate all the steam carrying pipes at the least.

Brad White_147

I agree with Bruce

100% on the Hartford Loop. (What you have is barely a Bridgeport Loop



Especially with the water feed there, banging and surging is guaranteed (save for low operating pressures, I am surprised it is not doing that with very little pressure).

The reason for the close nipple is that you do not want to give the returning condensate any time to make a decision nor have any momentum heading into the equalizer nor allow the balancing steam coming down the equalizer to enter the return. The condensate wants to "overflow" into the equalizer, dribble in as it were.

The header is much improved, I agree. Thanks for the update and before and after shots.

Brad

Dick_3

Water Feeder

I thought the M-M auto water feeder had to be piped with the pipe connections horizonital w/ the head up? Check the install info.

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Dave Miller

Steamhead..........

The 25' branch and sub-branch is to the left of the supply and the main goes right, around the basement for 60' and terminates thru the wall near the boiler.

The Hoffman 4A replaces the old one. Do you think I need to return it and replace with two Gorton 2's?

Thanks,

Dave

Timco

Is that a picture of the old boiler in the background??

Tim

Unknown

oh man...

Did we skimmed a page on the hartford loop pipings? Every boiler manufactors manual and steam books show hardford loop piping with SHORT nipple! Dropped header looks fine but using the st 90 into coulping may be defending the purpose of velicity , also, thought its best to have the 90 after the riser down turned...

Dave Miller

You are pretty observant Tim..........

Yes, see below for naked old Boynton after I carefully cleaned all of the asbestos cement off.

Steamhead (in transit)

So, the branch and sub-branch

total 50 feet? Is there a vent at the end of the sub-branch?

The 60-foot main should have a Gorton #2.

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Dave Miller

Steamhead. Sorry to be so vague.......

the branch to the left of the supply has about 25' of horizontal piping that branches in two directions. It feeds 3 rads and has no vent itself. See where it splits just above and to the left of the main vent? The main feeds 4 rads.

So one Gorton #2 for the main. I'll return the Hoffman.

I've ordered the balancing chart for the rads. Do you think variable vents are the way to go?

Steamhead (in transit)

Possibly

but see how the system does with good main vents first.

That 25-foot left main should have a Gorton #1. You'll probably have to have it drilled and tapped in the area of the split (the split is 25 feet from the boiler, correct?) if there's no tee for a vent already there. And the asbestos must be removed first, by a licensed contractor.

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Unknown

WOW Dave,,,,,,,,,,,

That`s a much better set-up than what you had! A few relatively "minor-things" to correct, like the guys said, but not NEAR what you had before. I was "wondering-again" how you were making-out on this! I`m glad there turned-out to be "flexability" between you and the installer after-all. BTW, I wanted to ask Frank if he thinks anything would have been gained by keeping the horiz. header-part as large as the old supply? It does show it that way(kinda), in your posted Burnham drawing. Just a curiosity question. Anyway,,, Happy Thanksgiving to ya, we`ve already had ours! LOL!

Steamhead (in transit)

I would have

gotten rid of the bullheaded tee and used two takeoffs from the header. And yes, I would have oversized the horizontal portion of the header. But the current setup is light-years ahead of the original mess.

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John N

Geneva, NY Seminar

When is this? I can't find it listed on the website anyplace?

Dave Miller

There is no seminar

in Geneva NY. I was saying i will recommend to my contractor that he attend one of Dan's seminars. The contractor is in Geneva NY.

Sorry for the confusion