Working with Plumber to save $?

amhplumb_2

Mike, I have been in the plumbing & heating trade for nearly 30 years. If I were to bid your job I would work with you on you taking care of the demo work, but that would be the extent of it. By demo, after you had the asbestos properly removed, I would disconnect the piping where I needed to re-connect, and show you what to get rid of. As far as you buying the boiler, or any other materials, I wouldn't and don't go for that. And it's not because I make a bundle on mark-up, believe me, I don't! It's WARRANTY & SERVICE issues. If there is a problem with items that you provide, I have to charge you for a service call, I can't donate time if your stuff is defective, and you won't be happy because i charge you! Even though I explain that fact and get it in writing up front, customers still have it in the back of their minds that they somehow shouldn't be charged even though they provided the material! As far as some of the tasks such as drilling holes and so forth, I would only work with you on this if the tasks are simple and obvious. There are too many variables that only experience can remedy, i.e., not cutting through a main support or roof truss. Once the damage is done! These little things don't save that much. In your case get a few more bids, possibly do the demo, and let a pro handle the rest, then it's all on him! You will save in the long run! Good luck!

mikep7777

Working with Plumber to save $?

Hi,

Looking to get an opinion before I call some local guys...

I'm a homeowner on a limited budget, looking to replace an older (late 40's) American Standard boiler in a gravity-feed system that had been updated (curculator pump, open expansion tank replaced with diaphragm tank) at some point in the past. The house is about 200 years old, and there are some access issues, but nothing huge.

Just got a quote from the local gas utility to have a Burnham 207 installed for $8500, a Burnham SCG6 for $9500, plus either a chimney liner ($600) or a Superstore Ultra indirect water heater for $2300.

At those prices, I can't do the work, and I'm definitely not excited about an 85% boiler for that type of money. However, looking around, I've found that I can get the equipment at somewhat cheaper prices (for example, the Superstore is less than $1000 shipped from Radiant Heat Products, and I've found some "scratch and dent" boilers, similar to the one they suggested, in the $2000 range.) I also was looking at something like a Weil McLain condensing boiler (around $4500 shipped).

My question is this: If I were willing to get all of the equipment into my basement, remove the existing boiler (after I have the asbestos guys in, of course), cut the holes in the sill for the air supply/exhaust, etc, is there any chance I'd be able to find a plumber who could come in and do the installation? I assume since they wouldn't be making any money on the equipment, the labor cost would be somewhat higher, but is it reasonable to expect that I could get someone to concentrate on the skilled part (the detailed design and installation of the system) instead of the grunt work?

Thanks,
-Mike

thfurnitureguy_5

limited budget

For what it is worth. It costs money to go fast , have fun ,and look good. ( or stay warm in this case) Keep in mind, the guy doing the work is trying to stay in business just like you or the guy you work for. Take the time to find a good , fair and honest trades man. Seeing their work and talking to their customers will save you more than you helping the wrong guy. You can call the banker for the budget. A few hours of overtime doing what you are good at, will pay the home equity line. If done right with good equipment you will save every year in energy cost. Best of luck

Al Corelli

Added costs

There's more to installing a heating system than just "a boiler".

There is quite a bit of ancillary equipment that often times, eclipses the cost of the boiler. It isn't just, a boiler and bunch of pipes. There are material costs for proper safety equipment and fittings, pipe, proper wiring, controls, foundation materials, pipe hangers, etc.

But, if a customer understands these things, and that we are in this business not just because we love damp basements, but for profit, then we are happy to work with someone who wants a great system and is willing to get some of the "lesser-skilled" labor done for us.

I can work with that. For sure.

jp_2

you'll never know!

until you ask!

everybodys got different ideas and ways of doing bussiness.

I'll be shocked to see who prefers to do the demo work?

go after someone who glady agrees and not one who you have to talk them into it. but thats still only part of it, they gotta know what their doing too.

Long Beach Ed

Ask...

You will probably find that many plumbers will welcome not doing the removal or the cutting of wood.

But don't think you'll save too much. Around these parts, we have big guys who remove boilers for about $300.

Remember that the price you are quoted should include much more than the boiler. You can probably double the equipment price for valves, piping, etc. You'd pay that even if you did the work yourself.

Then add the plumber's labor costs, his office expenses and, lord knows, his insurance. Add the hours he spent quoting your job and purchasing your equipment.

You may save a few bucks with the right guy if you approach him reasonably, but your energy would probably be better spent on making a few dollars to pay for a professional job than expending the effort to figure how you can pay someone less for their labor.

Long Beach Ed

Weezbo

not to say a second opinion is not in order..

buh maybe a third might land you with a smaller boiler less hassel better control and greater comfort.

some people can get messed up by having too many hands in the kitchen...they do not feel like it is any real help lets say to go and remove every identifying zone supply and return wire and pipe and then be expected to figure the mess out from there...no...you do yourself a disservice with out consideration...it may even be that you already have problems within a system, how would the guy KNow? and what of some other minor technicalities you may not take into account...these could cost time and money even if you may have meant well in what you managed to do prior to the installers arrival.

if you hire someone and they run off with the money who is going to want to come over and fix it at three in the morning? Perspective changes dramatically at times in our lives usually when we least are prepared for them, by hiring a local professional you have some one likely to be skilled with plenty of experience and willing to go the extra mile when They least care too....this is not a criticism it is more like maybe there is another way you can be involved in the work that is more productive for You . it is 27 below and the bottom is falling out right rapidly ,here. so, do not dawdle .olde man winter is commin on strong...

RoosterBoy._10

hi here is another option for you that will save you allot of money. seriously call up a trade school and see if they want to come in and do the install it will all be done nice and up to code. they will pull the permit. and the students will get hands on training. they will do the labor for free or for bus gas money. then you could buy yourself a real good boiler.

at least you wont get burned by some greedy lying contractor
and you can feel good knowing the job will be up to code and your system running good.

good luck

Jason

Robert O'Brien

Jason

If I'm not mistaken didn't you install your own boiler with a lot of help from the "greedy,lying contractors" both here and at OTT. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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RoosterBoy._10

hi robert im not calling all contractors greedy and lying im just saying if he is looking to find someone real cheep then his chances of finding one that is greedy lying will be much grater that's why you never shop on price only.

people that don't have ten grand to spend on a system. should look for a trade school as an option this way here you know he can rest assured he wont get burned.

and robert you know as well as i do every other contractor that comes to quote you a job will screw you or do the job wrong. im sure you have been on calls where you say who the hell did this install what a mess. right?

finding a good auto mechanic or a hvac company is like playing the lotto. you never win. unless you spend allot of money then your chances of winning get better but not guaranteed.

you know there is contractors out there that will give you a cheep price but at the cost of cutting corners.

will the cheep guy give you a spirovent or an air scoop.

will the cheep guy give you nice ball valves above and below the pumps.

will they spend money on good brackets and uni-strut or will they duct-tape the system to the wall.

will they insulate and tape all seems of the duct work for forced air.

most want to come in and get out as fast as they can.

yea they will take you to the prom but go home with someone else

Jason

Robert O'Brien

Sorry

It's only HALF who are "greedy,lying contractors" I thought you meant all,that makes a world of difference!Thanks for the clarification.

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Jim_65

What's

wrong with using an Air Scoop instead of a Spirovent?

They do cost less, are very effective and guess what they remove air.

Jed_2

yes

If piped according to mfgr's specs; 18xD lateral length. I've seen too many that do not meet that, and are useless. Need to conserve SPACE? Something to think about in the overall picture. Taco 4900 series is a nice air separator.

But the key is the piping for air scoops, no?

Jed

Mitch_6

I typically do not mind some one else doing

the grunt work in fact I often sub stuff like demo and carpentry out.

As to supplying equipment if have to steal a quote.

"Do you your steak and bottle of whine to the restaurant and ask them to serve it to you at a discount"

Mitch S.

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