noise when starting Knight 105

hr

It is very possible to have the unit dialed in exactly to the factory spec and still get a hum or resonance.

By all means use an analyzer to get the starting point correct.

I have had to take a Weil Ultra, Lochinvar Knight, and a Munchkin a turn or more past ideal readings to get the low fire noise to stop. Seems to be on the LP converted ones.

I'm actually 2-1/2 turns past ideal on my own Knight to get the noise out.

All were done with factory approval. I even had tech suppport on the phone to hear the noise and approve the "extra" tweak.

Customers frown on that "whale in heat" noise in the mechanical room :)

hot rod

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Walter_3

noise when starting Knight 105

Hi Guys, I need some help from the pros.

Have installed knight 105 two month ago. It makes funny noise almost every time it ignights. The noise is like midium sinusoidal tone, "TUUUUUU" for a couple of seconds and then it disapears. Boiler works perfectly. The manual says it could be dirty burner, but it is unlikely cuz its new. It also could be that the gas presure needs to be adjusted. I would like to know your oppinion and a posible fix for it before I start to do anything.

Thanks You,
Walter

Brad White_9

Did you


set it up with a combustion analyser?

Sounds like your combustion is off.

You have to use a combustion analyser on these units.

Mark H

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Unknown

Mark's seen enough of this problem to know!!

No question - They need to be checked with a combustion analyzer to be properly set up.

These boilers are set up at the factory to be right on but when you get in the field there are many influences that change the settings. This is especially true if you have converted to Propane.

John_86

noise when starting Knight 105

I agree with Mark. It sounds like the unit may need to be fine tuned to resolve the issue. If not let me know and I would be glad to help. By the way thanks for choosing a Lochinvar.
Thanks
John Pemerton
National Service Manager
Lochinvar Corpoiration

Uni R_2

HR...

Would a different ignition speed for the fan help instead of changing the mixture??

Brad White_9

nope


As short an answer as I can give.

Digital combustion analysis required.

No exceptions.

Mark H

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Brad White_9

John


We are looking at the Knight boiler. Don Knuth is the rep in my area.(Love that guy, just don't let him drive you ANYWHERE!)

I'd like to have a chat with you.

Mark H

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Uni R_2

Not so quick...

Mark, if Hot Rod says that he is "2½ turns past ideal", wouldn't that mean to you that he is 2½ turns from what his combustion analyzer said was the best running setting or the factory defaults?

Let me rephase my question clearer.

With the boiler tuned best for continuous running, could a small change in the ignition rpm setting, smooth out the start up noise?

hr

I think the manufactures are learning

just as the installers are. Gas quality, flue length, etc all enter in to the low fire noise, me thinks.

I've also tried drilling a small hole, as the factory recommended to break that sound wave.

On one installation the homeowner could hear the moaning outside his home, it was that loud.

The choice was to tune the noise away, with the factory permission, again, or remove the boiler and replace with another brand. Your choice.

Keep in mind every installation is different, not all need the extra adjusting. Some (most) start and run fine when tuned to the factory spec.

Knowing full well how CO lawsuits go down, I would never make these adjustments without factory approval. In one case the manufacture documanted my readings from the CO printout for record. I also keep a printout in the customers file.

hot rod

hot rod

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brucewo1b

I have also had

the factory have me put 3/4 zip screws in the burner tubes on an atmospheric burner but I wouldn't try it on my own.

S Ebels

Unrelated question on Knight boilers

Do these boilers have a built in flow switch and do the have a LWCO made to fit the little plug in the internal wiring panel?

Unknown

Flow switch is available as an accessory but not necessary, The electronics sense when flow isn't occurring by lack of diffenential through the boiler [this is as close a descriptiion as I can give].
They do have a LWCO that will fit [Kit3057]. You can also buy over the counter kits that have the plug or have wiring kits that will fit from all of the LWCO mfrs.

S Ebels

OK

So there's a flow sensor not a switch, correct? My question is this. Does the flow sensor satisfy the code requirements for a safety device? Here in Michigan we can use a flow switch or a LWCO. I'm wondering if the device you refer to hits that nail on the head and if notm why not
?

Unknown

That's great question. The answer is "that depends".

My experience with Inspectors is that they have varying degrees of training. They are not bad people but they tend to approve based on whatever knowledge they have.

Since the Knight's ability to see flow is not a visible item it might be a tough sell with an inspector.

I suspect that you will have to install one or the other valve to get approval.

[Deleted User]

ASME defers to CSD1 controls standards...

CSD 1 defers to teh manufacturers requirements. SOme CFT boilers can use a flow switch in leiu of a LWCO, but if I read and interpret the code correctly, the inspectors want to see both on the appliance.

Compliance and conformance seems to be a purely inspector driven thing.

In Denver, one of our stricter, well trained inspection forces, they require the use of a "testable, manual reset LWCO". They do not require a FS and a LWCO. Only the State of Colorado does.

Here is a cut and paste link to their very informative web site.

http://oil.cdle.state.co.us/Boiler/Boiler home.asp

IO have had exchanges with the Chief Boiler inspector. He is a no BS kind of guy. ANd when you see some of the explosive aftermaths of his subjects, you can see why. We deal with small bombs compared to what these guys are looking at on a daily basis. They take their work seriously, and rightfully so.

Now, if you want to talk about an area with LOTS of gey in it, lets talk the ASME requirements as it pertains to DHW storage tanks.

The code reads that if a vessel is larger than 119 gallons, or has water temperatures above 200 degrees F, or an INPUT greater than 200,000 btuH, it MUST be ASME rated and certified. As we all know, ASME has numerous jocular meanings. It means either A Substantial Monetary Exchange, or as Tony Connors told me, Always, Sometimes, Maybe, Except. Regardless of your intereptation, it is an expen$ive propo$tion, e$pecially if you get caught in$talling a non compliant tank after the fact...(Don't a$k me how I know thi$...)

Certain tank manufacturers are getting around this requirement by claiming that when the tank and heat source are over heated, that their heat exchange surface can't transfer 200K btuH, hence they don't NEED to comply. This has raised the hackles on more than one boiler inspector in my jurisdiction.

In any case, work safely out there...

ME

tim smith

interesting subject

Mark, we here in Seattle have the same issue w/ ASME and indirect water heaters. If we connect any indirect to a boiler over 200,000 btuh, the indirect has to be ASME, hard to find although. The mfrs are saying their indirect can't exchange over 200 mbh but if you look at their hot water production rates they have to be exchanging over 200mbh. It is very confusing and I am unsure what to figure on sometimes because of this. Just a rant, Tim.