Steam advice

Paul Fredricks_3

But looking at page 83 in my edition on The Lost Art, that's how the counterflow is piped. When I first saw it I thought the equalizer needed to be at the other end, but that's not what I see in the piping diagram.

Only one riser is needed.

Paul Fredricks_3

Steam help Please

I've got a customer with a counter flow steam system. It was installed last spring by another company and I'm trying to get things working properly.

The first thing I found was a lot of short cycling. The unit is a Smith #8 - 4. It was way over sized. Per Smith, I down fired it to .65 GPH. I've also found 4 bad radiator vents, which I'll change out when I get the new ones.

The piping of the mains is not ideal and may need a little tweaking. I noticed one main gets hot faster than the other.

2 Questions: I've looked in TLAOSH and can't find out how to size the mani vents. One main is 18' of 2" and the other is 2.5' of 2" and 11' of 1 1/2". Right now they both have Hoffman 4A's. Are these correct?

The radiators are using Heat Timer vari-vents. What are your opinion of these vents?

Thanks for the help. I've included some pics if you're interested.

Unknown

the system is tied in between the risers

That makes the steam and water from the two risers aim right at each other, and away from the equalizer.

It's not-so-good-a-lot to pipe it that way, too much water goes up into the mains and not the other way, into the equalizer.

Noel

On second glance, the front riser seems to be missing completely, making ALL of the steam going the wrong way....

Paul Fredricks_3

I know what you mean..

> That makes the steam and water from the two

> risers aim right at each other, and away from the

> equalizer.

>

> It's not-so-good-a-lot to pipe it

> that way, too much water goes up into the mains

> and not the other way, into the

> equalizer.

>

> Noel

>

> On second glance, the front

> riser seems to be missing completely, making ALL

> of the steam going the wrong way....

Unknown

Look at page 58, then

or page 51

Noel

Paul Fredricks_3

OK, so what's correct? Page 83 is for counter flow specifically. All the others show parallel flow systems.

Unknown

the I&O manual for that model boiler is.

Noel

Paul Fredricks_3

The I&O doesn't show a counterflow system, just parallel.
I have a call into Smith to see if they have a diagram.

Here's a pic of the diagram from the hoffman website:

Paul Fredricks_3

Smith doesn't have a diagram for counterflow. I emailed them one.

Unknown

point taken

I have seen them piped that way before, in fact, I've piped a runout that way myself once.

It certainly looks different when the boiler is aligned directly under the riser(s) connections.

I like to pipe the header slightly different on counterflow systems, like this...

Unknown

Now that you mention it,

I have seen it done that way. I've piped a runout that way, myself.

I was thrown off by the boiler being directly beneath the risers, and I looked at it as a 2-riser boiler, at first glance.

My apologies.

I prefer a slightly different method at the boiler connection, myself, but that's just me. I e-mailed you a drawing.

Noel

Paul Fredricks_3

And I emailed back. Your method makes a lot of sense. The counterflow is certainly a horse of a different color.

Thanks for the info.

Paul Fredricks_3

Back to the questions.

> I've got a customer with a counter flow steam

> system. It was installed last spring by another

> company and I'm trying to get things working

> properly.

>

> The first thing I found was a lot of

> short cycling. The unit is a Smith #8 - 4. It was

> way over sized. Per Smith, I down fired it to .65

> GPH. I've also found 4 bad radiator vents, which

> I'll change out when I get the new ones.

>

> The

> piping of the mains is not ideal and may need a

> little tweaking. I noticed one main gets hot

> faster than the other.

>

> 2 Questions: I've

> looked in TLAOSH and can't find out how to size

> the mani vents. One main is 18' of 2" and the

> other is 2.5' of 2" and 11' of 1 1/2". Right now

> they both have Hoffman 4A's. Are these

> correct?

>

> The radiators are using Heat Timer

> vari-vents. What are your opinion of these

> vents?

>

> Thanks for the help. I've included some

> pics if you're interested.

Paul Fredricks_3

Back to the questions.

Are the main vent sizes OK? What do you think of the Heat timer varivents?

Unknown

good to go

The first main contains about 0.42 cubic feet, and the smaller main contains about 0.22 CF.

The 4A's vent at .4 CFM @ 2 ozs.

Noel

Unknown

and...

I never had a problem using Vari-vents.

They eventually can fail, just like every other vent, but I liked using them.

Noel

Paul Fredricks_3

Thanks, Noel. I really appreciate all the info.