Please critique my piping

Andy_14

Please let me know if you think anything should be changed before I sweat these pipes.

This is Primary/Secondary piping for a single zone floor. Manifold is just sitting there and will be piped in when everything is put in mechanical room.

Brad White_143

Very Neat Job, Andy

Just a couple of (minor) thoughts:

1) Is there a drain valve for the upper primary loop? I see the one on the boiler outlet before the rise to the LWCO, but once risen, there is no drain that I can see for the rest of that portion, without draining via the secondary circuit. Maybe add a drain valve in one or both of the drops to the secondary circuit above those isolation valves? Would help in purging too. That or a purge-set isolation flange?

2) A balancing valve (not just throttling the ball valve but a real metered Y-Pattern Macon/Tour and Andersson type) balancing valve if you can fit one, for each circuit. My concern (if you can call it that) is the balance between the P/S circuits beyond what speed control can do. Specifically, if your primary rate is too high, you may short-cycle the boiler. (Maybe taps for a buffer tank on the return, if necessary?)

2a) In the absence of balancing valves, at least Pete's Plugs (T&P taps) or a pressure gauge setup reading both upstream and downstream of the circulators. You can then use the pump curve to determine flow rates for each circuit closely enough. Then use the ball valves if you must, to fine tune flow.

3) Thermometer or well in the common return to the boiler. Your secondary circuit thermometer tells you only so much, but I would think you would want to know what is happening through the closely spaced tees. An Azel dual thermometer set in wells with heat paste and mounted in that field will be a nice touch, giving accurate delta-T readings.

If temperature is accurate enough, this will help the balancing effort because in the end, temperature is where it counts.

No criticisms here! Just some instrumentation suggestions to enhance the hydronic experience.

Excellent work, Andy!

Brad

Ken_40

You might want to...

Use 000 steel wool on the copper next time to polish. The 00 stuff leaves a "hazed" gloss(;-o)

I'm busting ya'. It is knock-dead gorgeous!

hr

looks fine

I not sure of the boiler brand but many have the ability to read boiler supply and return temperatures. With a 3 speed pump you should be able to get the correct flow thru the boiler HX. most installation ma nuals give you the spec for that circ.

hot rod

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hr

looks fine

I not sure of the boiler brand but many have the ability to read boiler supply and return temperatures. With a 3 speed pump you should be able to get the correct flow thru the boiler HX. most installation ma nuals give you the spec for that circ.

hot rod

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Uni R_2

Indirect

Are you planning to connect an indirect to the system at some point?

RoosterBoy._8

looks real nice simple and clean :-) good job

RoosterBoy._9

i hope you post some more pictures when the job is done

thanks
Jason

GW

low mass

These little boilers fuss when there's a little air in the unit. Isn't it a lovely sound when you're making steam in one of these little guys (not that I have ever heard it, mind you)? It took me a minute to trace out all points of purge, but it seems like the air can be chased in both directions through the boiler confirming it's air free and confirming the pump is under water.

I dig the idea of pressure gages. What are pete's plugs? Sounds exciting, tell me where to see these things please.

Do you plan on bringing those sec pipes back up? Rhetorical question I guess, you must be. I'll sometimes stare at a boiler for an hour or more trying to plot out ways to keep from 'back tracking" in pusuit of clean lines.

Here's a nutty idea: I would like to take the pri pipe just out of the pri pump and drop right to the floor. Then take your secs off of the vertical drop I just mentioned, lining right up with your manifold. The new drop can do a 180 at or near the floor, directly behind the supply drop for neatness sake, then banging a right turn heading for the return on the unit. OR, drop the supply to the floor like mentioed and then continue the pri loop across down low, then come up right in the same vertical plane as the upeer pipe heading towards the lwc.

Ah, forget all that, looks great the way it is!

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Steamhead (in transit)

Looks good

are you going to include the "stubs" in your earlier diagram, to hook up an indirect?

I'll second the request for pics of the finished job.

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KindyMan

You'll love the NTI boiler...

I would add a ball valve between your secondary loop tees to help with purging. It saves a ton of time.

Andy_14

Thanks for the replies! I will try and address most of the questions or comments here.

Brad White,
How about if I move the primary loop drain up to the corner above the LWCO before the vavle. This way I could close the valve and power purge everthing toward the system piping and back up through the boiler to the drain. I also have a drain on the return side of the secondary loop as well as the manifold has drains at the end of both the supply and return runs.

The manifold has flow meters and balancing valves on all the circuits.(not sure if this is what you were talking about?)

I think I could fit a temp gauge on the primary return right behind the drain that I'm going to move.

hot rod,
Boiler is a Trinity ti150 I believe it only reads supply temp. I have a UPS 26-99(3 speed) for the primary(per the manual) and a UPS 15-58(3 speed) for the secondary.

Uni R and Steamhead,
No plans for an indirect.
The stubs in the earlier diagram were just in case a hydro air coil was added later. I've since eliminated them in the primary loop and if they are needed(which I doubt there will be a need) they will be added in the secondary loop.

Gary Wilson,
The secondary pipes will not come back up. They go straight across the wall and go into the manifold at the same height they are now(26" off the floor).

KindyMan,
Not enough room for a valve between the closely spaced tee's.

rucomfy

I don't know

which is better.. the Peter Lehmann Clancy's 02 I'm sipping or your professional piping. Both are extremely nice. Keep up the good work.

GW

back up

I guess i can't figure it out, the bottom of the secs are below the manifold aleady. Please post a pic when it's all done!

Is that even soldered yet? If so, you must have spens huge time directing heat and wiping runaway flux!

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Andy_14

The manifold is just sitting on the table. It is not where it will end up. In this pic you can see where it will go. It is not soldered yet.

GW

got it!

In the first pic I thought the manifold was screwed down in its final resting spot.

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Andy_14

Updated piping

Updated piping to address a couple things mentioned. Primary drain was moved to top of loop just before the valve. Temp/pressure gauge added on return.

KindyMan

I see room...

I would do anything to put that valve between the tees. It allows you to force the water/air through the zones while purging.

KindyMan

I see room...

I would do anything to put that valve between the tees. It allows you to force the water/air through the zones while purging.

Uni R_2

Anything?

You could keep them close and do a bypass if you want to maximize both goals.

Andy_14

Too late now. I've already sweat everything. I'll have to make due with it as is. Thanks for the replies though.

Cool Photoshop also!