Wood Boiler Recommendations

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on the house? That's a long distance to move the heat. Well insulated piping will be a must. Figure around 12 bucks a foot for a good quality water tight insulated pipe, possibly more if you need 1-1/4".

Tarm has an excellent reputation, www.woodheat.com. Also www.newhorizoncorp.com.

Better do some calcs for the shop and home loads, figure the distances and see what type of money you are talking. Would 12- 15 thousand or more be a good investment?

hot rod

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Stephen C.

I am considering wood heating as an alternative to oil and would like opinions and recommendations on efficient (gasification) boilers and their availability in Southeastern Ontario,Canada.

I have a 3000 sq.ft. 1860's brick house and 2 outbuildings to consider heating.(A workshop and heated winter storage)

The drive shed where this hypothetical boiler might go is 250-300 ft from house.

There is plenty of room in the drive shed (workshop)for indoor wood storage and a large buffer tank installation.

I have 40 acres of maple sugar bush as part of the property and hopefully enough energy to harvest sufficient firewood.

I also have as a back-up an oversized oil boiler in the house and an oil forced air furnace.

Thanks in advance for your input and comments.

Stephen

Ragu_5

My Favorite

Has always been H.S.Tarm.

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Woodman

HS Tarm

HS Tarm has worked well for two homeowners I know in my area. Company has been in business for quite a while and they report excellent response from both the tech and warranty dept.

Stephen C.

My calculated house heat loss is approx 82000 btu/hr plus domestic hot water.
Forced air oil usage without hot water:
04/05 oil 2635 Litres.
04/05 Propane fireplace and cooking 1800 Litres @ C$.699/Litre.
05/06 oil 2600 Litres @ C$.799/Litre

Shop and storage heat 20000-25000 btu/hr estimated. Yet to be finished but will be insulated and draught proofed to a high standard.

Future small greenhouse planned attached to shop (12'x 12').

It sounds cheaper than a new car. An investment even!
Would that budget be boiler only or distribution piping, controls, buffer tank etc. We are spending C$ 3000.00 plus per year to heat the big brick pile and that is with evening setbacks, vacant setbacks, fleeces, two Bouviers and an 85 lb. Bouv/Lab cross.Thermostat setting is seldom above 68 F.

What about availability of the Tarm and EKO boilers here in the great white north?

Thanks,

Stephen C.

Perry_2

One thing to consider...

Is how much time - and cost - it will take you to harvest enough wood each year to fire your wood heating system, and to tend the wood furnace (or boiler) each day.

I believe that you may be surprised. I have a brother who heats with wood from his "back 80". As he is on "disability" he has a lot of time to harvest wood. He purchased a small used tractor and fixed it up, a wagon, and a wood splitter. He goes through chain saws every couple of years, gas, etc.

It certainly is not "free" heat.

The size of the wood pile is nothing short of impressive at the start of the winter.

They cannot take a trip during the winter as they must feed the boiler at least twice a day. One year he had a minor injury and his wife expended most of her vacation time getting wood in for the winter.

Of course, you could purchase the wood presplit. But that is money as well.

I note that you figure that your back 40 will do the job. Long term - unless you cut it all down - I don't think so. After a few years of harvisting the drops and dead trees you will probably have to start cutting things down faster than they grow - or buy wood - or get permission to harvest elsewhere. I would estimate that given your house, sheds, and plans that you would need a back 80 or larger (100, 120?) for long term sustainability.

Now if you understand all of that - and know you have the time for wood gathering and splitting, then welcome to the world of wood heating.

One of the real advantages to oil, propane, gas, etc is that it has freed most of us from a lot of work and daily drugery required to support wood, coal, and other chunk fuel furnaces and boilers.

You might find that it may be far more effective to look at ways of improving energy efficiency for the house and outbuildings just might be long term more effective.

Perry

Lloyd Nichols

Wood Heating

Stephen,

Thanks for your questions. I agree with Hot Rod, that's a long way to move the heat. If it is feasible, it would be better to have the heat source closer to the house. I agree with Perry that it is always most cost effective t ominimize heat loss first, second and third! However, it seems to me Perry is overstating the effort required to gather the wood that will be needed. Given your oil usage numbers, we're only talking 5 to 6 cords of hardwood. Your back 40 could sustainably provide that amount of firewood easily, with plenty to spare. Besides, on the relative costs, none of us here should be surprised that the true cost of oil and gas is much higher than we pay the heating fuel dealer. Is the true cost 2X, 3X or 4X what we pay the dealer?

Thank you MaineMike, Ragu and Hot Rod for the good words. We are totally committed to efficient, earth friendly biomass heating. HS-Tarm boilers are available in Ontario. Please contact us for contact info on your nearest dealer.

Lloyd

jim post

tarm experience

We like the Tarm we installed in 2005. We have the solo plus 30 which is rated at 100,000 btus/hr. It provides baseboard heat, domestic hot water, and a mostly smoke free burn to our 1600 sf ranch house. We went from using 1400 gallons (2004) of lp to less than 40 gallons last year.
While it's true that there is alot of work that goes into heating with wood...there is also a tremendous feeling of accomplishment.

Wood! The other right heat! :-)

Stephen C.

I very much appreciate the lifestyle aspect of wood heat and the effort involved. Cutting firewood is a very good excuse to get out into the fresh air.

I grew up cutting and splitting massive amounts of firewood for inefficient wood eating fireplaces and stoves.

My desire is for relative efficiency and sustainability.
I figured 1/3 - 1/2 cords of wood per acre yield out of the back forty. That gives me hopefully 13-20 cords yearly plus existing standing dead and windfalls.

Contigency plans would include buying pre-cut firewood at C$ 250.00/cord or reverting to oil.

My options for improving the building envelope are limited as gutting the house and rebuilding from the inside can not be considered cost effective compared to a few extra cords of wood or gallons of oil.

Naturally any improved outbuildings would have a very tight envelope.

Stephen C.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

indoor wood boiler

what about using an indoor wood boiler. I'm going to be working on a Kerr that never worked right, but it seems to be the way to go. You don't have to go outside to feed it, no underground piping, and heat loss from the boiler and piping will be within the heated envelope.
Any thoughts? Bob Gagnon

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Stephen C.

I considered putting the heating plant in the basement but there is not enough headroom or storage available.

With the addition of the workshop and heated storage to the equation I would have to install another appliance and storage facilities for fuel.

The heating contractor I use suggested using the existing oversized boiler that I have and bury the insulated lines below the frost line. He felt that the cost of trenching and materials would roughly equal a new appliance and install.

Besides , I have to walk the mutts twice a day and walk right past the drive shed so a pitstop to stoke the boiler while they cavort should not be too inconvenient.

Stephen C.

hr

Indoor wood burning

is frowned upon by some home insurance providers. Best check with them before you install inside.

Also the mess! Wood dust, bugs, ash removal, smoke when refueling, etc..

hot rod

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Ron Huber

cost of burning wood

chain saw, $500, truck to haul wood in from woods, $18,000 , hydraulic wood splitter, $600 , visit to doctor to remove wood splint in eye, $1,200 , law suit for when you cut down tree on property line and fell on neighbors house $10,000 , cost for chimney sweep in the middle of heating season when your gasifier that was not supposed to creosote in fact plugged up your chimney, $350, cost of burning wood the first year,
$30,600. Getting tech support and acountability from Tarm USA good luck!!!

Stephen C.

Noted on both counts.

My wife (She who must be obeyed!) doesn't tolerate the mess well at all.

Insurers seem to want a premium increase if wood burning appliances installed, thus partially negating savings to be had.

Stephen C.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

indoor wood boiler

I'm thinking the indoor boiler might be for the wood burning type people, willing to do the work and put up with a little mess. It would be less messy than a standard wood stove placed in the living area, if the wood boiler were placed in the basement. Think about all that heat loss keeping your basement warm. Bob Gagnon

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Stephen C.

JPinWI,

How did you decide on the Tarm?

What comparisons did you consider?

Was this a self-install or a heating contractor?

The P&H contractor I use sees wood heating as a fringe thing and possibly with some disdain.

What are some of the details of your system?

Any pitfalls and pitches to avoid?

Thanks,

Stephen C.

Will Merryman

Wood fired boilers

Check out Blackbearboilers.com for their new made in Maine boiler as well as a new underground pipe insulation.

Joe D.

burning wood expensive ? --- NO

I've burned wood for over 30 years, first 15 in a wood stove, the last 15 were a rebuilt firetube boiler heating finned tube baseboard.

I still have the same chainsaw I started out with, plus a 5 year newer one. If you take at least some care of them, they'll last. I provide minimal care (!) and my Echo saws are still sawing away. I have went through a number of chains, but that is a normal wear item. The saws more than earned their keep, so that arguement is nil. They don't burn much gas/oil.

When I cut wood, I cut a heaping pickup bed load at a time, and that amount will last about a good 2 to 3 weeks.
I have the same truck I've had since 1985, so that cost is low, just like the saws.

Most of you fellows are back east, I'm out in Kansas. I have access to places to cut wood for free.
Out here, we measure wood by the "rick"- 2 ricks equals a "Cord". Around here, people sell by the rick, not cord.
Right now, if you're buying wood, it is between 40 and 50 dollars a rick around here, so about $100 a cord- For years you could buy it for around 25 to 35$.

The most sought after wood is called "hedge" - osage orange- Bois d'arc- what ever you want to call it. A high btu fuel if there ever was one. Others available locally are ash, oak, sycamore, elm, pecan, hackberry, locust, and persimmon. They are all native to this area.

In my boiler I can burn wood up to about 4 feet long, if I can lift it !!!

This way of heating saves me a lot of money over the years. One drawback is that I have to feed it at least once every 24 hours, depending on how cold it is. I work away from home and am gone sometimes 24 hours at a time, so I have to count on my neighbor to tend it til I get home.

All in all, this system has saved me boatloads of money heating my big old house

I recently plumbed in a Munchkin to the hot water heating system, but I haven't got it wired yet. I have it all drawn out how I am gonna have the wood unit provide the heat to the system and have it's pump drop out of the system when its water temp drops below a certain temp, then the Munchkin will start firing.

When I first did the boiler, I had 1-1/4 pipe buried about 3 feet deep running from the house out to the boiler to get the water back and forth. Big waste of heat. Dug that all up and laid 4" diameter PVC in its place and threaded pex tubing thru it. Not perfect but a lot better. I stuff the ends of that PVC with insulation to keep the heat coming off the Pex from drifting out the ends into the atmosphere.

jim post

more info

We decided on a tarm after looking at several other brands of wood boiler...Greenwood, Heatsource1, Central boiler to name a few.

Advantages of the tarm...Higher efficiency, local dealer, inside installation (not fighting the weather to load the boiler). Excellent reputation on Woodheat.org and The Wall.

We had the local dealer set the boiler and run the chimney...I did all the piping to tie in to our existing 3-zone bb hotwater system. Inside the house there is no difference between using wood or the existing lp boiler other than we keep the house much warmer when using wood. We use the lp boiler if we are not going to be around to stoke the wood boiler.

Wood heating is not for everyone...many people won't make the time and don't have the desire to properly monitor and maintain the system... gather a seasoned wood supply (at least a year ahead of use), split & stack wood, stoke the fire, rake the ash, and clean the heat exchange tubes once a month, and periodically check and clean the chimney.

We usually stoke the boiler 3 times a day depending on the weather...we don't have the hot water storage option (too pricey at this point) so we have learned to scale our wood loading accordingly. It has taken us a season of operation to get comfortable with how the boiler works and the amount of wood to load. We put a side arm heat exchanger on our electric water heater which gives us an unlimited supply of wood heated hot water.

Our boiler sits on a concrete pedestal tucked into an alcove in our attached garage. This keeps the associated wood debris and smoke out of the house and keeps our unheated attached garage pretty comfortable all winter long.

Mike Thomas_2

My Dad

My dad burned wood for probably 30 years. His advice;"If you have any other job skills at all, go make money instead of a wood pile."

Mark Wolff_2

Supply/Return Piping underground

I am not a rep for anyone, but I will recommend you look at Wirsbo for the underground piping. They have a corrugated plastic piping, with the supply and return tubes encased in red and blue foam respectively. It is the best solution I have seen and comes in special order lengths as needed.

If other manufacturers have come out with something similar I would be interested in hearing about it.

Maine Ken

Rehau.

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Stephen C.

Money and Woodpiles

I think that a comparison should be made between the after tax income that is spent on delivered fuels versus the available and renewable fuel resource on my doorstep.

My real cost of fuel is the gross income and expenses associated with earning it. That comes close to doubling what I pay for fuel.

Spending time in the outdoors with plenty of fresh air and exercise has to have an economic value in some way. I could join a gym for exercise but then I have to drive there and pay a membership fee.

Also, woodburning is probably in part a lifestyle choice.

Stephen C.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

Stephen's right

It's not always about the money. It's a way to thumb your nose at the middle east terrorists. It's about self reliance
and it is a good way to work outside

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