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system 2000 Vs. Buderus
Ken_40
Member Posts: 1,310
would lean towards the Buderus.
I am no fan of euro stuff when Yanks make the same or similar thing, but a welded steel boiler, like the EK "System 2000" that does not even condense is not a comparable "option" to the Buderus, it would be a "lesser quality" unit, which is priced higher (I suspect) and would invert your intention of offering high-end within "equals" IMHO.
I would look at the makers of true "high end" CONDENSING oil-fired boilers long before looking at EK's S-2000 as a brand in my stable of boiler maker options.
I am no fan of euro stuff when Yanks make the same or similar thing, but a welded steel boiler, like the EK "System 2000" that does not even condense is not a comparable "option" to the Buderus, it would be a "lesser quality" unit, which is priced higher (I suspect) and would invert your intention of offering high-end within "equals" IMHO.
I would look at the makers of true "high end" CONDENSING oil-fired boilers long before looking at EK's S-2000 as a brand in my stable of boiler maker options.
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Comments
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system 2000 Vs. Buderus
I am a service manager for a hvac and fuel oil company and have been installing "BUDERUS" boilers for about 5 years. We push them as our high end model. My boss met with the rep for Energy kinetics and he wants to carry the system 2000 as a high end model. I havenever worked on or seen a system 2000 before. Any feedback would be a help.
Thanks--Eric0 -
STICK TO BUDEROUS0 -
If it ain't broke..
Ditto what Howard said.0 -
Both
Why not use both?
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They aren't bad
System 2000 is a good boiler. We install Buderus and they are our biggest source of call backs particularly on Direct Vents. We are an oil company and service all types and brands so it isn't improper set ups (we have had our rep out). System 2000 only comes with it's Energy Manager which is part of what makes it what it is. A Buderus can come with either it's Logomatic control (to me it's what makes it special) or a plain operating control which most of them have. With the plain control it's just another boiler (to me anyway).
JMO,
Leo0 -
Direct vent
Direct vent can be an issue, I agree. But from my own personal experience, a direct vent G115 works (just over 11 years). Burner set up is key! I started with a Carlin and had for 8 years, last three years the Beckett NX (Switched to NX for trial purpose only). Considering installing a chimney due to odor in the summer time. Installed a pool and deck. A chimney should be the first option chosen.
To me the key factors on oil fired direct vents are: 1)Annual maintenance -A MUST, 2) incoming air must be deluted with room air -Most important!!! 3)when setting up the burner CO2 should be around 10.5% no greater than 11%. I would assume this would apply to most oil fired direct vents, but would suggest contacting Energy Kinetics for thier input 1-800-323-2066. Any questions on Buderus please contact us at 1-800-283-3787.0 -
doesn't want to
my boss doesn't want to offer too many options, He wants to offere one high end and one low end.0 -
They're both great boilers...
System 2000 is a proven boiler and does just what it says it does.
Buderus is also a proven boiler, but can be just a regular boiler if installed w/o the logomatic.
With the logomatic it's does basically the same as EK.
EK made in US
Buderus Germany
EK alway has 25% warranty left on boiler
Buderus... not sure... Joe?0 -
On Direct Venting EK
you have to power vent. Not a great option, IMO. Why not a Burnham MPO? I would just use the EK where there's space issues.0 -
Take a look inside a system 200 and tell me how that qualifies as a boiler? it looks like a steel ziploc bag to me. I guess I work on steam too much to have faith in a couple sheets of steel to heat a home.Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.
cell # 413-841-6726
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Charlie,
ever see a Vitodens heat exchanger?
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Here we go
There is more than one way to heat a house.
As far as the structural integrity of the Energy Kinetics Boiler, I am sure it has been tested to be capable of a long life as a boiler. I don't think there are a lot of guys out there who have worked on those boilers that would share the sentiments above. No need to get feathers ruffled over that comment.
I have always stuck to my guns in the past as far as always using a good cast iron boiler compared to a typical dry base steel tube boiler. That is what the comparison used to be.
But this does not apply to say the Energy Kinetics, or the Trianco Max, or Burnham LE these are steel boilers with water surrounding the combustion chamber just like a good cast-iron 3 pass wet base boiler. There are however of a low-mass design that I think is not well suited to boilers that can't use modulating burners, or condensing heat exchangers. Just my opinion, and Energy Kinetics uses the Heat manager to get around it a little. But still, I think that when using a fized output burner eliminating constant short cycling is key to not only efficiency, but life of parts as well.
I dont think that the Energy Kinetics boiler itself is less durable. However given a choice between the Energy Kinetics, and say a 3 pass cast iron boielr such as a Viessmann Vitorond, or Buderus 115, or Burnham MPO, or Weil McLain Ultra oil, etc I would choose the cast iron.
Why?
I like the fact that there is no ceramic combustion chamber/Target wall to replace. Burner guys know that using a target wall, with a tight, well designed combustion chamber gives very complete combustion, and is a case to make for the Energy Kinetics. In the case of the Viessmann however, all new Vitoronds will have a stainless steel chamber insert to not only give the photcell a better view of fire, but also to provide good combustion chamber dynamics that will burn more completely than say a typical 3- pass cast iron boiler.
I just happen to like simplicity when it comes to oil-fired non condensing/modulating boilers that are cast iron. There are no welds to leak, or parts and pieces that need to be removed to clean, and or/ replace, like the Energy Kinetics, or say the Dynatherm. The heat exchangers of modern 3 pass cast iron boilers mentioned above are works of art.
As far as the Vitodens, if you compare it's heat exchanger to other mod/con gas boilers, you would see just how tough it is. I would put the Vitodens exchanger in a class by itself. That however is not to say that other boilers are junk, on the contrary. Proven designs from the Munchkin, the Knight, Buderus GB, etc so far all seem to be good boilers, with factory support to match.
I do not want to say that I would never buy an Energy Kinetics boiler, I have worked on many, and they seem to do what they do very well, and reliably. Call backs on Energy Kinetics boilers are the same as any other. The one I remember that was unscheduled was for a bad return temp sensor, and even then I was able to program the heat manager in emergency mode to just keep firing to high limit so the cust would have heat until the next day.
If all boilers were cast iron life would be boring ;-)
Cosmo0 -
Warranty
Buderus warranty is full replacement on the block for the first ten years, then pro-rated down to 25% at the 25th year and beyond.
Whichever boiler your company decides, please look into getting as much training as possible. Call the manufacture, ask for extra manuals, ask for burner specs, get to know the brand you choose. If it is going to be your "high end" line, offer "high end" support and service. If Buderus is choosen, please contact me at joe.kennard@bbtna.com and I will provide the information you need (any other wallie is welcomed to do the same).0 -
B vs. E
> There is more than one way to heat a house.
> As far as the structural integrity of the Energy
> Kinetics Boiler, I am sure it has been tested to
> be capable of a long life as a boiler. I don't
> think there are a lot of guys out there who have
> worked on those boilers that would share the
> sentiments above. No need to get feathers
> ruffled over that comment.
>
> I have always
> stuck to my guns in the past as far as always
> using a good cast iron boiler compared to a
> typical dry base steel tube boiler. That is what
> the comparison used to be.
>
> But this does not
> apply to say the Energy Kinetics, or the Trianco
> Max, or Burnham LE these are steel boilers with
> water surrounding the combustion chamber just
> like a good cast-iron 3 pass wet base boiler.
> There are however of a low-mass design that I
> think is not well suited to boilers that can't
> use modulating burners, or condensing heat
> exchangers. Just my opinion, and Energy Kinetics
> uses the Heat manager to get around it a little.
> But still, I think that when using a fized output
> burner eliminating constant short cycling is key
> to not only efficiency, but life of parts as
> well.
>
> I dont think that the Energy Kinetics
> boiler itself is less durable. However given a
> choice between the Energy Kinetics, and say a 3
> pass cast iron boielr such as a Viessmann
> Vitorond, or Buderus 115, or Burnham MPO, or Weil
> McLain Ultra oil, etc I would choose the cast
> iron.
>
> Why?
>
> I like the fact that there is
> no ceramic combustion chamber/Target wall to
> replace. Burner guys know that using a target
> wall, with a tight, well designed combustion
> chamber gives very complete combustion, and is a
> case to make for the Energy Kinetics. In the
> case of the Viessmann however, all new Vitoronds
> will have a stainless steel chamber insert to not
> only give the photcell a better view of fire, but
> also to provide good combustion chamber dynamics
> that will burn more completely than say a typical
> 3- pass cast iron boiler.
>
> I just happen to
> like simplicity when it comes to oil-fired non
> condensing/modulating boilers that are cast iron.
> There are no welds to leak, or parts and pieces
> that need to be removed to clean, and or/
> replace, like the Energy Kinetics, or say the
> Dynatherm. The heat exchangers of modern 3 pass
> cast iron boilers mentioned above are works of
> art.
>
> As far as the Vitodens, if you compare
> it's heat exchanger to other mod/con gas boilers,
> you would see just how tough it is. I would put
> the Vitodens exchanger in a class by itself.
> That however is not to say that other boilers are
> junk, on the contrary. Proven designs from the
> Munchkin, the Knight, Buderus GB, etc so far all
> seem to be good boilers, with factory support to
> match.
>
> I do not want to say that I would never
> buy an Energy Kinetics boiler, I have worked on
> many, and they seem to do what they do very well,
> and reliably. Call backs on Energy Kinetics
> boilers are the same as any other. The one I
> remember that was unscheduled was for a bad
> return temp sensor, and even then I was able to
> program the heat manager in emergency mode to
> just keep firing to high limit so the cust would
> have heat until the next day.
>
> If all boilers
> were cast iron life would be boring ;-)
> Cosmo
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B vs. E
I'd take the EK over Buderus myself. I've had extensive hands on with both brands for 20 years, I feel the EK is better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Buderus is bad...........0 -
It's preference
I've installed and serviced many of both,more Buderus than EK. If I had either in my house I'd be happy. Blonde vs. Brunette. Ford vs. Chevy. Tastes Great vs Less Filling. Isn't all the same thing?
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In general, with the same combustion efficiency IF SET UP AND CONTROLED PROPERLY the boiler with the lowest mass will have the highest OPERATING efficiency. If not set up and controlled properly, the boiler with the highest mass will be the most reliable.
I like them both. ....and the Biasi and the Crown Freeport. But still haven't found the perfect boiler.
Ron0
This discussion has been closed.
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