Buderus s. Peerless - Logomatic 2107 vs. 2109...

Dave_4

can leave the thermostats to act as a "high limit" and setback the temp by the logamatic

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Brian McIntosh

Buderus s. Peerless - Logomatic 2107 vs. 2109...

Hello all,

I'm getting quotes for a new heating system. Peerless WBV-3/4 and the Buderus G115. If they are both listed as being 86% efficient, is it worth spending the $500 - $1000 more for the Buderus (I plan to stay in the house for 20 years).

With the quotes on the Buderus there is the option of getting the Logomatic controls (either the 2107 or the 2109). Does this replace the thermostat inside the home? Is the unit necessary? Thanks for any and all answers.
Brian M.

John Roberts

G115 vs WBV

Brian,
This is not an apples to apples comparison. Do you plan on getting your domestic hot water from the heating system?

Brian McIntosh

No, I was going to get either the Buderus indirect LT160 (with the Buderus boiler) or a Triangle Tube Phase III Smart 50 with the Peerless (for a family of five).

Thanks for the help John!

John Roberts

Brian,
The basic difference between the two boilers is in their design, the Peerless being a single pass "pin type" boiler and the Buderus being a "triple pass" European design. The Peerless is capable of providing dom. water via a tankless coil, where the Buderus is not. In my humble opinion the Buderus boiler is the no-brainer choice as far as fuel economy is concerned especially whe coupled with the R-2107 Outdoor Reset control. The advantage of a triple pass boiler is the ability to modulate it's supply water temp. down below the flue gas condensation point (approx. 140*)and not harm the boiler. The Peerless cannot claim the same.
What this will do for you is allow the boiler to operate at only the temp. required to overcome the heat loss of the structure. Rich Trethewey claims that a 3 degree drop in supply temp equates to about a 1% drop in fuel usage. On the coldest day of the year you may need 180* water to overcome the heat loss, but on a 35* day you may only need 130* water to heat the building. Take that to the end and you are saving about 16% in fuel usage that particular day over a boiler that operates at 180* all the time.
The Buderus is a wise choice to see a return on investment.
The R-2109 is not an outdoor reset control, you want the R-2107.

Brian McIntosh

Wow, thanks for putting that into language a regular homeowner can actually undertand! I really appreciate that John. You just made the decision very easy for me. I would expect that over the years I will have the system the extra expense of the Buderus would pay for itself.

So does the 2107 also replace a wall mounted thermostat, because right now I have one upstairs and one downstairs for each zone. It would be nice to control everything from that one unit.

Ted_9

No

The R2107 does not replace your tstats. But there is a way to use a Buderus indoor sensor for your system. More info is needed. Like how many zone of heat do you have? What kind of radiators etc.

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Brian McIntosh

Ted,

The house is a colonial (no basement, just crawl space).
It has two zones, one upstairs, one for the main level.)
The heat is through baseboards. Are the indoor sensors
from Buderus expensive?

- Brian

John Roberts

ROI

Brian,
Thank you for the kind words and thank you to those who shared their expertise. Return on Investment is the long range goal here. The questions you have posed are the sign of a smart consumer, do yourself a favor and ask the same of your contractor. Ask him about his experience with Buderus equipment, esp. the R2107. When you find the right guy you won't be able to shut him up.

Bob V

Buderus Control R2107

Spend the money on the Buderus!! It's worth it. Just installed a G215/4 with a L/T200 stacked unit w/R2107 controll. It works great. Customer and Builder are very happy with the choice. The controll works well with the outdoor sensor and has great features. Built in condensate protection to controll low temps. in boiler, integrates the LT tank and monitors temps in tank, can use with existing t-stats, and can even will run a domestic recirculation pump. Haven't used any of Buderus' room sensors yet to inform you how they work, sorry. Plus if your a guy that likes to try different things, your can program the R2107 for night,vacation,multi-day programs.
Only downside was have had problems with Becket burners on 2 boilers. I would recommend the Carlin Burner option.

RoosterBoy._4

i have the lt160 tank the only downside is if by some reason you need to replace it you have to up-pipe the boiler and left it off the tank. it looks real good but if i had to redo my setup i would have went with a st tank. for faster change out

thanks
Jason

also i have the 2107 with bfu and love it

Brian McIntosh

Thanks Jason,

That's good to know, especially considering I plan on being in the house
for a while. Thank you.

Jason can I ask about how much the 2107 unit runs vs. the 2109 (if you happen to know)?

- Brian

Brian McIntosh

Thanks Jason,

That's good to know, especially considering I plan on being in the house
for a while. Thank you.

Jason can I ask about how much the 2107 unit runs vs. the 2109 (if you happen to know)?

- Brian

RoosterBoy._4

yes the 2107 is $580.00 and the 2109 is about $280 or less
the bfu is about $90 they wiring the exact same between both units. id take the 2107 if i where you do it right the first time

and you can call joe at buderus and he will help run you though the easy programing. in 10 mins or you can ask me if you have any questions on the 2107

Dave_4

Jason

Why don't you enlighten some of us stupid contractors who are paying more than you(A Homeowner) pay for controls. What whoresaler,excuse me, Wholesaler are you doing business with?

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RoosterBoy._4

i got my prices from a friend that owns a winnelson plumbing supply i bought the complete buderus system from him and he has one on the show room floor. and fweb had the same price

and i know for sure that the 2107 cant be more then $600.00 i guarantee it or your getting riped

update just got off the phone now r2107 $587.50

Brian McIntosh

Thanks Jason, I figured it would be more than the 2109 (considering it has the outdoor reset). I appreiate the offer of running me through how to work the control as well. Much appreciated. I'm going to make sure the installer is very knowledgable with it before hiring him.

Take care, Brian

RoosterBoy._4

just make sure that he dose not show up with all bran new tools :-) no seriously allot of contractors get intimidated by the buderus control because they see a screen and they think automatically it's a hard one to install and make you believe it hard so you will be ok with paying more to install. but trust me there wrong.

anyone can install the buderus control the wiring is in plain English straightforward and easy.

the programing done with joe if you like is easy also then just fine tune your ref-temp as low as you can that will take experimenting but again easy and you can call me and ill tell you more on that.

then it's stupid questions like time dhw temperature and ref-Temp and how much night time setback you want

basically wither you wire the 2109 or the 2107 there is no difference. wiring is the same.

i would also make sure you have them put in a low water cut off.


thanks
Jason

Dave_4

Thanks,Jason

I thought this was heatinghelp.com I guess it's shopping.com I believe it's a breach of etiquette to discuss pricing

Ted_9

Hold On.

Roosterboy, I think your out of line. You know pricing discussions are not desirable here. Every contractor gets a different price for the products they buy.

The list price for those controls are:

R2107 $734.00
R2109 $356.00
BFU room sensor $112.00

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RoosterBoy._4

well hay im sorry the guy asked and since your all contractors
i did not think it was a big deal. since you all know the price anyway.

Jason

Ted_9

Price

Its just that its unfair to say what ones price is.

What do you pay for reg. unleaded? I pay $2.07. Do you?

Know what I mean?

It's great that you gave him good info.

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RoosterBoy._4

exactly now he knows that all prices are different and i never thought that any of you would care less. i wanted him to know that he should get the 2107 because it's not much more then the 2109 that was my point

Robert O'Brien

From Winnelson website

"WINNELSON is one of the top ranked distributors of plumbing supplies in the United States.

With more than 230 LOCATIONS and 91 SHOWROOMS in 38 STATES, the Winnelson companies efficiently move fixtures, pipe, fittings, water heaters, and all plumbing-related products through the supply chain channel to Residential and Commercial contractors, Schools, Industry, governments, and hospitals."

They don't mention selling to homeowners at trade prices


Too bad they're not in NY,then I could drive past them on the way to a Wholesaler who doesn't abuse their trade customers!

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Brian McIntosh

I'm new to this site. I didn't realize I couldn't inquire as to what price a piece of equipment costs. When I posted the question I wasn't asking for the wholesale price just a ballpark. I appreciate that Jason told me. Like he said in his post above, I've gotten a few quotes on several systems and they are ALL different. I will not be going with the lowest estimate anyway because that contractor has the least installation experience with Buderus equipment.

Thanks to everyone for all their help. I really have learned a lot from this site.

RoosterBoy._4

well i understand why business's are forced to sell to home owners when you have home depot's and walmart's moving into town kicking out all family owned business's with morals they are forced to sell to anyone just to stay opened.

big corporations is the one to blame for that.

pulse like i said the owner is my friend so i can buy anything i want like sizzle that you cant get at home depot he wont just sell that to anyone but contractors or me :-) so I'm lucky in that regard

so even when copper is cheaper at home depot i still go to my buddies. for all my plumbing and bathroom kitchen needs.

stop shopping at walmart's and support local business here in the us-of-a

with the cost of living and cost of insurance and cost of owning a business with car payments mortgages kids and food. people cant afford to turn away customers.

it almost like that's the price we pay for shipping are jobs to china. isn't life good :-)people having to work 3 jobs just so they can pay there bills. yea but the economy is good :-)

looks like we are going to just stay the course

thanks
Jason

RoosterBoy._4

.